I create approximately 20% of threads on this board. Don't know about percentage of my posts. It's hard to count.
throws are actually better than submissions
there's a reason slamming people is banned and submissions are not. Even bjj itself admits it's too dangerous thus superior
throws are actually better than submissions
there's a reason slamming people is banned and submissions are not. Even bjj itself admits it's too dangerous thus superior
>I can definitely kill you with most submissions
If by most submissions wou mean strangles, sure, though.onlybafter looking them in for a few minutes straight. Throwing someone on their head ok pavement is a one deal type of thing.
They're both equally important. My biggest gripe with judo is that they treat throws and takedowns like a silver bullet. Sure it it's pulled off correctly, you can pick the dude's brains off the pavement or they have a broken neck. But if it fails, you need to follow-up with either another throw/takedown or do groundfighting.
Submissions are controllable. I can definitely kill you with most submissions, slams and throws are less predictable
Yup. At least there's a measure of control when applying a joint lock or choke.
>But if it fails, you need to follow-up with either another throw/takedown or do groundfighting.
You’re absolutely right, I think when you half-fail a throw Judo should only award you with half a point so that you need to continue to dominate in newaza or get another throw to win. Oh wait
If you half fail a punch boxing should only aword you with a KD, only a clean shot should be treated as KO, cause maybe if you didn't have gloves, it might actually knock someone out
>My biggest gripe with judo is that they treat throws and takedowns like a silver bullet.
So you know basically nothing about the sport of judo nor judo as a martial art and you have strong opinons based in ignorance.
For frick sake, 2 out of the 4 ways you can win a match are on the ground, and only clean powerful dominant throws count as a ipon. You know, the kind of throw that would probably end most fights if it wasn't on a soft grappling mat, and shows that they probably had enough control where they could have modified the throw enough to seriously hurt the guy if they wanted to.
But you don't know that because you know basically nothing about judo.
There is never a good reason to voluntarily go to ground fighting outside of a sport. Be ready for it sure, but you never initiate that shit, thats moronic.
They PED abuse for performance they do not roid muscle mass, two different things.
I don't think people understand that you don't necessarily want to murder people every time there is an altercation. There is a lot of value in being able to control someone and threaten with submission instead of slamming them on their skull and going to prison.
Sometimes altercations are with people you know and you just need to control them while they have a tantrum
The most moronic thing about tkd is
NOOOO YOU CANT CHECK KICKS WITH YOUR SHIN THATS FOUL
I love the kicks of tkd and i use em successfully in mma but doing only tkd will actually leave you with less fighting capability than say, just lifting weights
Funny thing is, TKD manuals now show shin block and use of low kicks.
Greco has a point though.
I sorta agree too. I would not shoot for a single leg or double leg because the risk of eating a knee or an elbow/punch by my opponent unless I know I can get away with it. All the throws, trips, and takedowns in wrestling shouldn't be discounted.
Ped as in the name performance enhancing drug is just a catch all term and kinda nebulous in itself.
Two examples to illustrate two different cases:
Caffeine for example is a ped, arguably. It's not gonna make you some mass monster
epo is a ped for sure. Yet it's the twink build that survives cycling at the tour de france and such that uses it
On bjj guys blasting: the ultimate goal is performance yes but most of them do it for size as well. Some of them are moronic so they shit that doesnt actually help much performance wise, makes no sense when it comes cost to benefit and will destroy them
8 months ago
Anonymous
>some
The line's pretty clear imo. There's people a few people who are truly maximizing their performance based on theorized drug use and personal reaction to a substance/being able to mask it if necessary, and motherfrickers who are lost in the 70s just taking whatever, whenever, however. Most of the latter also seem to be a specific subset of brazilians who also treat all forms of grappling like it's the 70s.
ADCC guys are comically yoked. Strength is a huge advantage in grappling and the absurd notion that BJJ is somehow a strength neutral sport, or even that it's deprioritized, is straight up Gracie propaganda. What's ridiculous is that people who definitely know better keep saying this shit.
Pro BJJ players take roids for the same reason everyone takes roids. Improved recovery + muscle mass. Due to drug screening ranging from gossamer-thin to non-existent at the highest levels, BJJ has the most ridiculous roid monsters we've seen since Pride.
I think it's because grapplers usually win against strikers even if the striker is stronger (especially in early ufc) so people started to believe strenght doesn't matter in grappling
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'd argue that grapplers are more fitter and stronger than strikers. Wrestling in particular is the most physically intense training that people go through. Not saying boxers and Nak Muays aren't physically fit and strong (they have to be), but a grappler has to have grip strength, cardio, and be able to use proper torque in stand-up as well as on the ground.
ADCC guys are comically yoked. Strength is a huge advantage in grappling and the absurd notion that BJJ is somehow a strength neutral sport, or even that it's deprioritized, is straight up Gracie propaganda. What's ridiculous is that people who definitely know better keep saying this shit.
Pro BJJ players take roids for the same reason everyone takes roids. Improved recovery + muscle mass. Due to drug screening ranging from gossamer-thin to non-existent at the highest levels, BJJ has the most ridiculous roid monsters we've seen since Pride.
The holy triumvirate of submission grappling (regardless of style) is Strength + Leverage + Technique. You can't have 1 or 2; you need all 3 when training and competing. Neglecting 1 is stupid as well as focusing on 1 or 2 over the others is equally moronic. You need strength to be able to have the physical exertion to pull off rolling, sweeping, and other moves yet you need to take advantage of mechanics and the fulcrum as well as a good idea of how to apply a move.
7 months ago
Anonymous
What does leverage mean in context of grappling?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Using the correct position of your limbs and hips when applying a joint-lock or choke as well as setting your hooks in or performing a sweep. It's physics 101; why exert more effort than necessary when you can take advantage of pivot points to slap on submissions or help you set-up for one?
I like Muay Thai and Freestyle, but I've heard some of their practitioners spout stupid shit too like Nak Muays saying nobody can take us down and Freestyle saying that good luck having somebody knee them when they go for a single/double leg.
Ideally, you take the best from what the following has to offer:
- Boxing for footwork and head movement
- Judo for throws, trips, and takedowns
- BJJ for groundfighting
- Lethwei because fighting bare-knuckle is something that can happen (I don't agree with using headbutts however)
- Greco for stand-up takedowns
For Karate, I would take boshi-ken (thumb punch), sokusen (toe kick), and tuite (trapping techniques)
TKD has a few tricky kicks that might come in handle, but generally I think kicks should be no higher than the waist. I prefer low kicks and kicks to the abdomen
Aikido? Frick no
Krav maga. I've got nothing against it, but I'd rather train in Sombo
Heard of Keysi but can't really comment
If people mean Kickboxing as in the Japanese variant or Dutch offshoot, that's okay. But Western kickboxing (American full-contact karate) is not my cup of tea.
Lethwei is a legit martial sport. I just think using headbutts is too much. And the striking is nowhere near as polished as Muay Thai is.
I don't like karate in general, but Okinawan toe kicks are very dangerous and overlooked. Thumb punch and tuite have some self-defense applications.
Krav Maga was built on actual fighting techniques from boxing, wrestling, judo but it eventually spawned to a meme. Still, there's probably enough legit instructors that know how to pull off the parent arts to frick someone up.
I'm convinced 90% of the posts on here come from this Polish guy.
I create approximately 20% of threads on this board. Don't know about percentage of my posts. It's hard to count.
By this logic, fish hooking is super effective
>By this logic, fish hooking is super effective
yeah it definitely is
throws are actually better than submissions
there's a reason slamming people is banned and submissions are not. Even bjj itself admits it's too dangerous thus superior
Submissions are controllable. I can definitely kill you with most submissions, slams and throws are less predictable
>I can definitely kill you with most submissions
If by most submissions wou mean strangles, sure, though.onlybafter looking them in for a few minutes straight. Throwing someone on their head ok pavement is a one deal type of thing.
They're both equally important. My biggest gripe with judo is that they treat throws and takedowns like a silver bullet. Sure it it's pulled off correctly, you can pick the dude's brains off the pavement or they have a broken neck. But if it fails, you need to follow-up with either another throw/takedown or do groundfighting.
Yup. At least there's a measure of control when applying a joint lock or choke.
>But if it fails, you need to follow-up with either another throw/takedown or do groundfighting.
You’re absolutely right, I think when you half-fail a throw Judo should only award you with half a point so that you need to continue to dominate in newaza or get another throw to win. Oh wait
If you half fail a punch boxing should only aword you with a KD, only a clean shot should be treated as KO, cause maybe if you didn't have gloves, it might actually knock someone out
Just do boxing with mma gloves instead.
>My biggest gripe with judo is that they treat throws and takedowns like a silver bullet.
So you know basically nothing about the sport of judo nor judo as a martial art and you have strong opinons based in ignorance.
For frick sake, 2 out of the 4 ways you can win a match are on the ground, and only clean powerful dominant throws count as a ipon. You know, the kind of throw that would probably end most fights if it wasn't on a soft grappling mat, and shows that they probably had enough control where they could have modified the throw enough to seriously hurt the guy if they wanted to.
But you don't know that because you know basically nothing about judo.
>and only clean powerful dominant throws count as a ipon.
Yes, like gently rolling over your opponents back after a kenken uchimata
In the video shows a example of a ippon qualifying version of the throw.
Again, I am thinking you don't know what you are talking about.
Lul. Ok. We can pretend that every throw is a megaton slam.
Nice strawman.
Your ignorance could easily be cleared up if you knew what a ippon is but you don't and you refuse to learn.
Very strong opinions with very little knowledge.
I'm a judo & jits black belt you stupid gay. I fricking know what an ippon is. Let me guess. You're a citrus belt with a superiority complex?
There is never a good reason to voluntarily go to ground fighting outside of a sport. Be ready for it sure, but you never initiate that shit, thats moronic.
Same difference dipshit.
I don't think people understand that you don't necessarily want to murder people every time there is an altercation. There is a lot of value in being able to control someone and threaten with submission instead of slamming them on their skull and going to prison.
Sometimes altercations are with people you know and you just need to control them while they have a tantrum
>ken ken uchi mata
>rolling around with opponent on ground ippon
>heh....i am deadly....
>Elbows don't stop fights
Bas Rutten
>I'm 300-0 because I fought guys on the beach
Rickson Gracie
>ronda rousey could beat the 135 men
joe rogan
>travis lutter is the michael jordan of bjj
mike goldberg
>Rickson with an R
Me
Greco has a point though.
12-6 elbow is legitimate weakness to typical mma style that the rules don't account for.
The most moronic thing about tkd is
NOOOO YOU CANT CHECK KICKS WITH YOUR SHIN THATS FOUL
I love the kicks of tkd and i use em successfully in mma but doing only tkd will actually leave you with less fighting capability than say, just lifting weights
Funny thing is, TKD manuals now show shin block and use of low kicks.
I sorta agree too. I would not shoot for a single leg or double leg because the risk of eating a knee or an elbow/punch by my opponent unless I know I can get away with it. All the throws, trips, and takedowns in wrestling shouldn't be discounted.
>BJJ
>muscles mean nothing
Pretty sure BJJ is one of the most heavily roided combat sports on the planet.
They PED abuse for performance they do not roid muscle mass, two different things.
I thought they were the same thing. What the frick is the difference?
Being that small minded.
I’m just asking you to explain it to me.
Nta
Ped as in the name performance enhancing drug is just a catch all term and kinda nebulous in itself.
Two examples to illustrate two different cases:
Caffeine for example is a ped, arguably. It's not gonna make you some mass monster
epo is a ped for sure. Yet it's the twink build that survives cycling at the tour de france and such that uses it
On bjj guys blasting: the ultimate goal is performance yes but most of them do it for size as well. Some of them are moronic so they shit that doesnt actually help much performance wise, makes no sense when it comes cost to benefit and will destroy them
>some
The line's pretty clear imo. There's people a few people who are truly maximizing their performance based on theorized drug use and personal reaction to a substance/being able to mask it if necessary, and motherfrickers who are lost in the 70s just taking whatever, whenever, however. Most of the latter also seem to be a specific subset of brazilians who also treat all forms of grappling like it's the 70s.
ADCC guys are comically yoked. Strength is a huge advantage in grappling and the absurd notion that BJJ is somehow a strength neutral sport, or even that it's deprioritized, is straight up Gracie propaganda. What's ridiculous is that people who definitely know better keep saying this shit.
Pro BJJ players take roids for the same reason everyone takes roids. Improved recovery + muscle mass. Due to drug screening ranging from gossamer-thin to non-existent at the highest levels, BJJ has the most ridiculous roid monsters we've seen since Pride.
I think it's because grapplers usually win against strikers even if the striker is stronger (especially in early ufc) so people started to believe strenght doesn't matter in grappling
I'd argue that grapplers are more fitter and stronger than strikers. Wrestling in particular is the most physically intense training that people go through. Not saying boxers and Nak Muays aren't physically fit and strong (they have to be), but a grappler has to have grip strength, cardio, and be able to use proper torque in stand-up as well as on the ground.
The holy triumvirate of submission grappling (regardless of style) is Strength + Leverage + Technique. You can't have 1 or 2; you need all 3 when training and competing. Neglecting 1 is stupid as well as focusing on 1 or 2 over the others is equally moronic. You need strength to be able to have the physical exertion to pull off rolling, sweeping, and other moves yet you need to take advantage of mechanics and the fulcrum as well as a good idea of how to apply a move.
What does leverage mean in context of grappling?
Using the correct position of your limbs and hips when applying a joint-lock or choke as well as setting your hooks in or performing a sweep. It's physics 101; why exert more effort than necessary when you can take advantage of pivot points to slap on submissions or help you set-up for one?
> S Tier: Ameri-Do-Te
> Myau Thai, Legendary.
> Wrestling, pretty much explains itself.
> Silat
> BJJ, Wingchun/JKD.
> Kickboxing/Karate/TKD.
> Boxing, decent.
> S Tier: Ameri-Do-Te
> Myau Thai, Legendary.
> Wrestling, pretty much explains itself.
> Silat, Judo, Sambo.
> BJJ, Wingchun/JKD.
> Kickboxing/Karate/TKD.
> Boxing, decent.
Fixed.
Some of that shit is true tho
Like what?
Every one of those is generalized bullshit.
I like Muay Thai and Freestyle, but I've heard some of their practitioners spout stupid shit too like Nak Muays saying nobody can take us down and Freestyle saying that good luck having somebody knee them when they go for a single/double leg.
Ideally, you take the best from what the following has to offer:
- Boxing for footwork and head movement
- Judo for throws, trips, and takedowns
- BJJ for groundfighting
- Lethwei because fighting bare-knuckle is something that can happen (I don't agree with using headbutts however)
- Greco for stand-up takedowns
For Karate, I would take boshi-ken (thumb punch), sokusen (toe kick), and tuite (trapping techniques)
TKD has a few tricky kicks that might come in handle, but generally I think kicks should be no higher than the waist. I prefer low kicks and kicks to the abdomen
Aikido? Frick no
Krav maga. I've got nothing against it, but I'd rather train in Sombo
Heard of Keysi but can't really comment
If people mean Kickboxing as in the Japanese variant or Dutch offshoot, that's okay. But Western kickboxing (American full-contact karate) is not my cup of tea.
>lethwei
>karate geekery
>Krav maga. I've got nothing against it
>Western kickboxing (American full-contact karate)
Lethwei is a legit martial sport. I just think using headbutts is too much. And the striking is nowhere near as polished as Muay Thai is.
I don't like karate in general, but Okinawan toe kicks are very dangerous and overlooked. Thumb punch and tuite have some self-defense applications.
Krav Maga was built on actual fighting techniques from boxing, wrestling, judo but it eventually spawned to a meme. Still, there's probably enough legit instructors that know how to pull off the parent arts to frick someone up.
And I said, I never cared for Western kickboxing.