All else equal, being bigger and stronger is always an advantage. There is pretty much no "technique that will turn the opponents size and strength against them" in the sense that it works better than on someone smaller and weaker. If something works on someone big and strong, 99.9% chance it works even better on someone small and weak.
That said, sumo's been exposed. UFC filtered out many martial arts as ineffective.
Any technique that unbalances an opponent at the legs will work better against top heavy or generally large opponents. These techniques aren't the be all and end all but it can make a difference.
I love effective pressure tested modern hybrid martial arts and combat sports. Under pressure testing you really only have 3 arts kickboxing, submission wrestling, and MMA.
And any pressure tested art is basically one of those 3 looking almost identical to non-martial artists. I.e. Sanda, K1, Muay Thai are all kickboxing. BJJ, catch wrestling, kosen judo are all submission wrestling.
Which is a sign of evolutionary. I.e. convergent design/appearance due to pressure. But I still sort of miss the crazy variety of styles in that 1980s idea of single styles like say the Street Fighter games line up represents or early UFC.
>That said, sumo's been exposed. UFC filtered out many martial arts as ineffective.
No actual professional sumo wrestler competed in the UFC. Guy in OP was just a fat black guy.
The idea that MMA is some sort of Darwinist proving ground is flawed. MMA is still a very new sport and there can be other reasons that an art isn't represented in MMA that are unrelated to combat effectiveness.
MMA is a good litmus test, but it's not the end-all-be-all of whether an art is shit or not.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I respectfully disagree. We have had 40 years of mixed style competition that in the early part was bareknuckle and is still in some places albeit far fewer now. It's rules really only disallow a handful of things.
Any arts that were effective we would have seen. If somewhere as remote and poor like Dagestan can produce numerous champions simply because Dagestani wrestling is so effective, and styles that prior to 20 years ago hardly anyone did on a global scale like Muay Thai and BJJ produce numerous champs; if Sumo done by many many people in a first world country like Japan worked as a general combat art we would have seen that in the cage.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That doesn't address my main point, which is that there are reasons other than combat effectiveness that can prevent practitioners of a certain style from appearing in MMA.
>If somewhere as remote and poor like Dagestan can produce numerous champions simply because Dagestani wrestling is so effective > if Sumo done by many many people in a first world country like Japan
This logic doesn't make any sense.
"Dagestani wrestling" isn't its own unique style with special techniques. It's the same wrestling you can find anywhere else in the world. The reason why the Dagestanis are so good is because they train like maniacs from childhood, which is why they do well in many other combat sports.
Mongolia is also a poor remote country with a population about the same size as Dagestan. They have a strong wrestling culture that allows them to do well at multiple combat sports at the highest level. There are no Mongolian wrestlers in MMA. By your logic, Mongolian wrestlers must be an ineffective style. In reality, the reason why there are no Mongolian MMA fighters is because no Mongolians have ever tried MMA. Nobody knows or gives a frick about MMA in Mongolia.
France is a large 1 first world country with many successful fighters in multiple combat disciplines. How come there are barely any French fighters in MMA? Surely they must suck right? No, it's because MMA was illegal in France up until 2 years ago.
There's plenty of reasons why we haven't seen many sumo wrestlers in MMA.
>high injury rate >wrestlers who retire from sumo stay in sumo as coaches/elders or retire from competition in general >average salaried sumo wrestler makes more money than average MMA fighter >majority of sumo wrestlers weigh more than the weight limit used in the unified rules of MMA
taylor wily isn't black lol he's a samoan from hawaii and was a real sumo wrestler part of the Azumazeki stable. you homosexuals literally just make shit up and people take it at face value. have a nice day
not aikido.. that's just some larp martial art one of takeda's worst students invented and what he was taught about aiki barely even scratched the surface. the practical application of aiki was to remain a well guarded secret within the seiwa minamoto clan and still is to this day.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>muh sekret eastern techniques
Competition breeds success. MMA and combat sports beat all because they have a huge talent pool of people constantly competing with effective techniques coming out through emergence. There is no eastern secret stuff it was a lie and Asian propaganda nerd.
1 year ago
Anonymous
unlike your mma fighters, the seiwa minamoto clan fought in actual battle to the death and when they weren't they were competing with eachother. takeda himself was challenged by countless fighters of various backgrounds but he never lost a fight.
you obviously dont know what you're talking about.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Which all happened hundreds of hears ago. Anything they learnt would have deteriorated long ago and anything effective we would have now through emergence. This whole hidden knowledge thing is a lie for dorks.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>the seiwa minamoto clan fought in actual battle to the death
With weapons. Not hands.
taylor wily isn't black lol he's a samoan from hawaii and was a real sumo wrestler part of the Azumazeki stable. you homosexuals literally just make shit up and people take it at face value. have a nice day
[...]
if it were a real fight that midget would've been smashed potatoes. see vid related.
There's more to fighting success than just size. You have to take into consideration skill and desire as well.
>pic related
This is Mainoumi. He stood about 5'6" and weighed in around 217 pounds, and managed to do what only 10% of all sumo wrestlers can do, make it to the top division. He fought 528 bouts in the highest division of sumo, won 241 bouts, and lost 287. That's a 45% win rate vs. opponents that averaged 6 feet tall and 330 pounds. Not too shabby.
This fight doesn't prove anything, one guy broke his foot and his hand hitting the other, and it was stopped because the sumo guy lost a tooth, despite the fact he could've continued. It's such a nondefinitive fight.
Sumo is weak and impractical for unarmed combat. Every time a sumo wrestler fought in the UFC they lost.
>UFC 1 Teila Tuli vs Gerard Gordeau >UFC 3 Keith Hackney vs Emmanuel Yarborough >UFC 9 Mark Hall vs Kōji Kitao
All of them were quickly defeated. Another thing is they weren't just any ordinary sumo wrestler either. Telia Tuli was a prominent sumo wrestler in Japan, Koji Kitao is considered one of the greatest dump wrestlers ever, and Emmanuel Yarborough was the biggest sumo wrestler ever.
>Telia Tuli was a prominent sumo wrestler in Japan
His highest rank in sumo was makushita, which isn't even in the salaried ranks, let alone the top division. He was only a step removed from having to wipe the other sumo wrestlers' asses.
>Koji Kitao is considered one of the greatest dump wrestlers ever
Koji Kitao is notorious for being one of the worst sumo wrestlers ever. He never won a single top division championship. His promotion to yokozuna is unanimously considered a mistake and led to stricter promoting standards. He was such an embarrassment that he was forced to retire without a hearing.
>Emmanuel Yarborough was the biggest sumo wrestler ever.
He never competed in professional sumo ever.
Akebono was an accomplished sumo wrestler who won multiple championships and earned the highest rank of yokozuna. However, by the time he retired from sumo he had a whole bunch of injuries.
His style of sumo also wasn't one that translates well outside of it. He mostly size-mogged other wrestlers and pushed them out. Since you can't win by ringout in most combat sports, the most he could was smother people into the corner. Didn't help that most of his fights were in kickboxing where he couldn't actually wrestle with people either.
All else equal, being bigger and stronger is always an advantage. There is pretty much no "technique that will turn the opponents size and strength against them" in the sense that it works better than on someone smaller and weaker. If something works on someone big and strong, 99.9% chance it works even better on someone small and weak.
That said, sumo's been exposed. UFC filtered out many martial arts as ineffective.
>no "technique that will turn the opponents size and strength against them"
...ʲᵘᵈᵒ...
continue reading
Then why do judo tournaments have weight classes :^)
Because everyone in judo tournaments knows judo.
why cant i gouge your eyes in any martial arts?
Any technique that unbalances an opponent at the legs will work better against top heavy or generally large opponents. These techniques aren't the be all and end all but it can make a difference.
I love effective pressure tested modern hybrid martial arts and combat sports. Under pressure testing you really only have 3 arts kickboxing, submission wrestling, and MMA.
And any pressure tested art is basically one of those 3 looking almost identical to non-martial artists. I.e. Sanda, K1, Muay Thai are all kickboxing. BJJ, catch wrestling, kosen judo are all submission wrestling.
Which is a sign of evolutionary. I.e. convergent design/appearance due to pressure. But I still sort of miss the crazy variety of styles in that 1980s idea of single styles like say the Street Fighter games line up represents or early UFC.
>That said, sumo's been exposed. UFC filtered out many martial arts as ineffective.
No actual professional sumo wrestler competed in the UFC. Guy in OP was just a fat black guy.
If it worked we would have seen it in 40 years of MMA especially as the art was partly founded in Japan.
The idea that MMA is some sort of Darwinist proving ground is flawed. MMA is still a very new sport and there can be other reasons that an art isn't represented in MMA that are unrelated to combat effectiveness.
MMA is a good litmus test, but it's not the end-all-be-all of whether an art is shit or not.
I respectfully disagree. We have had 40 years of mixed style competition that in the early part was bareknuckle and is still in some places albeit far fewer now. It's rules really only disallow a handful of things.
Any arts that were effective we would have seen. If somewhere as remote and poor like Dagestan can produce numerous champions simply because Dagestani wrestling is so effective, and styles that prior to 20 years ago hardly anyone did on a global scale like Muay Thai and BJJ produce numerous champs; if Sumo done by many many people in a first world country like Japan worked as a general combat art we would have seen that in the cage.
That doesn't address my main point, which is that there are reasons other than combat effectiveness that can prevent practitioners of a certain style from appearing in MMA.
>If somewhere as remote and poor like Dagestan can produce numerous champions simply because Dagestani wrestling is so effective
> if Sumo done by many many people in a first world country like Japan
This logic doesn't make any sense.
"Dagestani wrestling" isn't its own unique style with special techniques. It's the same wrestling you can find anywhere else in the world. The reason why the Dagestanis are so good is because they train like maniacs from childhood, which is why they do well in many other combat sports.
Mongolia is also a poor remote country with a population about the same size as Dagestan. They have a strong wrestling culture that allows them to do well at multiple combat sports at the highest level. There are no Mongolian wrestlers in MMA. By your logic, Mongolian wrestlers must be an ineffective style. In reality, the reason why there are no Mongolian MMA fighters is because no Mongolians have ever tried MMA. Nobody knows or gives a frick about MMA in Mongolia.
France is a large 1 first world country with many successful fighters in multiple combat disciplines. How come there are barely any French fighters in MMA? Surely they must suck right? No, it's because MMA was illegal in France up until 2 years ago.
There's plenty of reasons why we haven't seen many sumo wrestlers in MMA.
>high injury rate
>wrestlers who retire from sumo stay in sumo as coaches/elders or retire from competition in general
>average salaried sumo wrestler makes more money than average MMA fighter
>majority of sumo wrestlers weigh more than the weight limit used in the unified rules of MMA
If MMA was so effective, or BJJ specifically we would see a ton of MMA/BJJ fighters succeeding in Sumo
taylor wily isn't black lol he's a samoan from hawaii and was a real sumo wrestler part of the Azumazeki stable. you homosexuals literally just make shit up and people take it at face value. have a nice day
>no "technique that will turn the opponents size and strength against them"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiki_(martial_arts_principle)
>aikido
LOL
not aikido.. that's just some larp martial art one of takeda's worst students invented and what he was taught about aiki barely even scratched the surface. the practical application of aiki was to remain a well guarded secret within the seiwa minamoto clan and still is to this day.
>muh sekret eastern techniques
Competition breeds success. MMA and combat sports beat all because they have a huge talent pool of people constantly competing with effective techniques coming out through emergence. There is no eastern secret stuff it was a lie and Asian propaganda nerd.
unlike your mma fighters, the seiwa minamoto clan fought in actual battle to the death and when they weren't they were competing with eachother. takeda himself was challenged by countless fighters of various backgrounds but he never lost a fight.
you obviously dont know what you're talking about.
Which all happened hundreds of hears ago. Anything they learnt would have deteriorated long ago and anything effective we would have now through emergence. This whole hidden knowledge thing is a lie for dorks.
>the seiwa minamoto clan fought in actual battle to the death
With weapons. Not hands.
Why fights can't be just chaos?
They're about controlling chaos either from flowing with the chaos (say boxing & Muay Thai) or controlling it's direction (say wrestling & BJJ).
Ok
guess who won this fight
if it were a real fight that midget would've been smashed potatoes. see vid related.
>BJJ
Just take them to the ground and kick them in the troath.
No matter how big you are that will always be a lethal spot
>a bad armbar gets countered
>this means le big boi could’ve just tossed fedor emelienko, mma legend, off like nothing
This board is moronic
There's more to fighting success than just size. You have to take into consideration skill and desire as well.
>pic related
This is Mainoumi. He stood about 5'6" and weighed in around 217 pounds, and managed to do what only 10% of all sumo wrestlers can do, make it to the top division. He fought 528 bouts in the highest division of sumo, won 241 bouts, and lost 287. That's a 45% win rate vs. opponents that averaged 6 feet tall and 330 pounds. Not too shabby.
Mainoumi vs. 6'6" 500 pound Yokozuna Akebono.
This fight doesn't prove anything, one guy broke his foot and his hand hitting the other, and it was stopped because the sumo guy lost a tooth, despite the fact he could've continued. It's such a nondefinitive fight.
Sumo is weak and impractical for unarmed combat. Every time a sumo wrestler fought in the UFC they lost.
>UFC 1 Teila Tuli vs Gerard Gordeau
>UFC 3 Keith Hackney vs Emmanuel Yarborough
>UFC 9 Mark Hall vs Kōji Kitao
All of them were quickly defeated. Another thing is they weren't just any ordinary sumo wrestler either. Telia Tuli was a prominent sumo wrestler in Japan, Koji Kitao is considered one of the greatest dump wrestlers ever, and Emmanuel Yarborough was the biggest sumo wrestler ever.
None of the guys you listed were any good.
>Telia Tuli was a prominent sumo wrestler in Japan
His highest rank in sumo was makushita, which isn't even in the salaried ranks, let alone the top division. He was only a step removed from having to wipe the other sumo wrestlers' asses.
>Koji Kitao is considered one of the greatest dump wrestlers ever
Koji Kitao is notorious for being one of the worst sumo wrestlers ever. He never won a single top division championship. His promotion to yokozuna is unanimously considered a mistake and led to stricter promoting standards. He was such an embarrassment that he was forced to retire without a hearing.
>Emmanuel Yarborough was the biggest sumo wrestler ever.
He never competed in professional sumo ever.
What about Akebono?
Akebono was an accomplished sumo wrestler who won multiple championships and earned the highest rank of yokozuna. However, by the time he retired from sumo he had a whole bunch of injuries.
His style of sumo also wasn't one that translates well outside of it. He mostly size-mogged other wrestlers and pushed them out. Since you can't win by ringout in most combat sports, the most he could was smother people into the corner. Didn't help that most of his fights were in kickboxing where he couldn't actually wrestle with people either.
Size doesn't mater in the grand scheme of unarmed combat but it does matter to an extent.