Why, on this board, does everyone advocate for Judo, BJJ, striking arts, instead of just traditional Jiu-Jitsu, which encompasses the ground grappling of BJJ, the throws of Judo, and the punches and kicks of Karate? There wouldn’t be Judo without Jiu-Jitsu and there obviously wouldn’t be BJJ
cause the sport is dead and the clubs are shit
go to a JJJ club and just look at the physiques and mental states of practitioners, they’re all fat old fricks or skinnyfat nerd virgins, or ugly women
their shit is garbage and always gets smashed when they go up in interdisciplinary bouts with BJJ guys
if it was good it would have survived natural selection but instead it got sent to hui by BJJ, judo and MMA
>ugly women
Bit rude lad innit ?
For one, because it’s much more niche and there aren’t many people doing it. Secondly though there’s no serious jujutsu competitions out there and no competitive martial arts tend to produce inferior athletes and by extension inferior fighters. Some of these places don’t even spar.
>judo's niche fully carved out
>bjj essentially the biggest thing going
>catch making major strides in coming back
>jjj has to go hang out in the corner with chin na and jerk off
Even then I think most of the people who would otherwise be interested in JJJ are probably scooped up by aikido clubs first.
Yeah that's a good point. They're not even the best at wu. How embarrassing.
when I google catch wrestling in my area I see fat ppl in masks that do acrobatics, I can´t find a real gym
From my experience, Catch has been almost completely absorbed into BJJ at this point. Go to a no-gi school and you will basically be learning Catch. Albeit, most BJJ gyms are not disciplined about teaching takedowns because adult hobbyists (reasonably) don't want to get injured. So you're gonna have to round up all the pyschos who want to do double leg drills and work on your own.
Generalist martial arts are generally crap. The very fact that they encompass so many things means that they spend very little time on anything in particular, this is ignoring the obvious lack of live sparring. If you want to be really good at striking you do something like Muay Thai, if you want to be really good at grappling you do BJJ. If you want to do some sick takedowns you do wrestling. If you want to do wrestling but also like screaming about how the very mention of the word "ippon" is enough to kill 50 thousand assailants on da streetz then judo is your thing.
Any good MMA gym operates under the assumption that its members are going to also be practising the individual arts mentioned above, you can't hope to be good at MMA just doing MMA classes. Why would Jiu Jitsu be any different?
>you want to do wrestling but also like screaming about how the very mention of the word "ippon" is enough to kill 50 thousand assailants on da streetz then judo is your thing.
>implying it wouldn’t
Bitches don’t know about my kiai
thats a lot of commas
Real Japanese jujutsu, particularly systems that are actually older than Judo, are very rare, particularly outside of Japan. Most of what gets passed around as jiu-jitsu in the west is an amalgamation of karate, aikido, and judo made sometime in the 20th century.
basically this is correct
most jujitsu schools were absorbed into judo so it's rare to find a legitimate one that wasn't and is still its own thing
>Any good MMA gym operates under the assumption that its members are going to also be practising the individual arts
>you can't hope to be good at MMA just doing MMA classes
I actually strongly disagree with this premise. MMA wasn't a legitimate sport until the just a few years ago. This generation of kids is the first generation of kids growing up with MMA being on TV and talked about as a mainstream thing.
formerly you would grow up wrestling or doing karate or whatever like all of us and then if you had an interest in MMA you'd go learn some other things to round yourself out
it's just not necessary anymore, if you want to do MMA you can start MMA at 5 years old and learn all the requisite skills
it just makes zero sense to learn how to do pure wrestling, learn pure boxing, then spend time reverse engineering what you know to make it work in a different context. Just learn to fight within that context from the beginning.
It is not feasible to become great at mma from just mma. For example grappling is ridiculously technical, and if you don't spend a lot of time focusing on it your grappling will just be mediocre. You can probably become pretty good at striking just from doing mma, because striking has less theory to it, but you are still much better off working on striking and grappling separately and then bringing them together with mma classes. MMA class essentially just becomes practicing fighting and learning how to transition from strikes to grappling
it is an I'll tell you why
anything beyond a purple belt in bjj for mma is purely academic and a complete waste of your time if the goal is to fight, all things equal when there are strikes involved there is no difference between a purple belt and a black belt
add into the sheer amount of completely useless gi training you're going to have to go through if you take traditional bjj classes and you're just making it a lot harder on yourself than it needs to be
and that's just the example I'm picking on but it goes for other things too, like sparring with boxing gloves on
why would you do this? the tactics and techniques you use with boxing gloves on are completely different than with MMA gloves on
boxing gloves are a waste of your time. Hell, boxing rounds for that matter
every sparring session you ever do in MMA should be kickboxing with clinching and takedown allowed
if someone gets a takedown you can just reset since the focus is striking practice, but if you're not practicing your striking with the threat of the takedown always present you're not practicing striking for MMA effectively
You are correct. Is it any surprise that combat sambists have had such an outsized presence in MMA? They grew up with a ruleset much closer to MMA than other martial artists. We westerners are going to be slow on the uptake with this. The generation of kids coming out of Chechnya and Dagestan that start MMA in grade school are going to really make an impact in the coming decades. And it's not because of based muslim toughness or whatever stupid shit, it's just that they have institutions that put kids on the MMA track from a young age. In America, parents are terrified of letting their kids do boxing or MMA unless they're dirt broke (but make an exception for football, which is moronic). We're going to have to get over this if we want to see our boys in the top 10.
>going to really make an impact in the coming decades. And it's not because of based muslim toughness or whatever stupid shit, it's just that they have institutions that put kids on the MMA track from a young age
Anon they all shave several years from their athletes kids age in these republics.
Now read thee book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)
I am not talking they don't put hardcore work in thier training. They do. But there is also big cheating factor behind their toughness. And it's poisoning Russian martial arts scene, but Russians can't do anything about it because Muslims are higher rank citizens than default Russians.
BTW mantly Soviet players from that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_Series
had same couple years trimmed from their age during their children careers (though they already were outliers when joining sports at 6 years old age to deserve that special treatment, but Soviets took no risks and boosted future champions even more).
There is a huge difference with Sambo curriculum and an MMA only classes not focusing on anything in specifc in depth. Sambo actually have judo days, wrestling days, boxing days, and then days where they put it all together. So again they are learning in depth about specializations and putting it all together at the end.
You are incorrect and I will tell you why. Any decent pro fighter is basically a BJJ brown belt level and above. They might not have the belt, but they are at least equivalent. UFC fighters are black belt level and above, again even if they dont have the belt. You will absolutely get submitted if you think purple belt is all you need.
Because Kano's jiu-jitsu (judo) eclipsed other Japanese jiu-jitsu schools over a hundred years ago, and there's basically no where outside of Japan to actually train it seriously. The lack of popularity also means there's no pressure testing of techniques and practical skill of practitioners; which results in schools that do teach it have gone the route of aikido.
>schools that do teach it have gone the route of aikido
The principles behind aikido are valid enough that they can work, it's just a total shame almost nobody actually bothers to train them until you can use them under pressure. I know they work because I've seen them being used, here in Brazil my home state military police imported some jap instructors to teach them aikido back in the late 90s and it was still taught by old police officers at least until the 2000s (presumably with resistance), so when I was younger I'd see old school police officers using it to flip and restrain people here and there. It was fun to watch, but I don't think they do it anymore, Judo and BJJ are much more practical to get good people to teach new cadets.
The only style of aikido that's worth any merit is Shodokan Aikido or Tomiki Aikido. Why? Because they actually do randori in practice because the founder was a student of both Jigoro Kano and Morihei Ueshiba.
>The idea of a more complete ju-jutsu style that is capable of supplementing good takedowns, ground work, submissions and joint manipulation with decent strike is attractive, but there's just no way to actually practice that on its own right now.
I'm wondering if there's Japanese trying to synthesize Koryu (old school as in pre-Meiji styles) Jujutsu with Gendai Budo (modern martial schools) like Judo, Sambo, and BJJ? Because if practiced in a safe yet resisting manner, a lot of those old Jujutsu moves can be applied in Goshin Jutsu.
It's the same way I feel about Tuite from Ryukyuan styles. Karate and kenpo is open-hand fighting; not just strikes but also grabbing your opponent's limbs for joint manipulation, hyper extensions and bone breaks. It's a lost art nowadays because very few schools practice it.
Hell even Kyokushin has an official Goshin Jutsu (self-defense) curriculum that Oyama formulated, but it's rarely practiced. He trained in Daito ryu Aiki-jutsu, the parent art of Aikido and Hapkido; even receiving a menkyo kaiden (official certificate to teach) from Yoshida Kotaro. So Kyokushin has grabbing and joint control techniques derived from Judo, Daito ryu, and Karate, but it's not emphasized.
>I'm wondering if there's Japanese trying to synthesize Koryu (old school as in pre-Meiji styles) Jujutsu with Gendai Budo (modern martial schools) like Judo, Sambo, and BJJ?
Many Jujutsu guys already have a background in judo so I don't think there would be much incentive to reverse engineer a new art from Jujutsu when Judo and now bjj are around and have such a high technical level.
Yeah but the thing about martial arts is that it's a lot like chemistry. When combining different elements under different conditions, you can come up with a totally unexpected result.
BJJ is not "Basically Just Judo" because even though its early footage was clearly very Judo-esque (Helio used to do some good throws in promo videos), it was pressure-tested specifically in challenge matches and Vale Tudo. So it's self-defense aspect (especially dealing with guys raining down strikes on you or the practitioner using strikes to open up opportunities to set-up for a submission) is what made it radically different. They specialized in guardwork because that's the WORST position to be in so that a Jiu-Jitiero knows how to defend and survive to be able to turn the tables and choke or break their attacker.
Imagine someone that takes the trapping, pins, upper body locks, and striking that Judo, BJJ, and Sport Sambo don't readily utilize from Koryu Jujutsu as well as the weapons practice. People mistake Jujutsu as unarmed fighting when it also included weapons schools and even unique ones like ropes as a weapon. So modern weapons like batons, knives, and brass knuckles could be practiced in conjunction with the Koryu moves and Gendai techniques.
>Yeah but the thing about martial arts is that it's a lot like chemistry. When combining different elements under different conditions, you can come up with a totally unexpected result.
Sure, but you have to consider that one, doing this would require a huge amount of effort that might not come to anything, and two, the people most interested in preserving old jujutsu schools are probably not the people interested in mixing and matching those arts to create something new.
>The only style of aikido that's worth any merit is Shodokan Aikido or Tomiki Aikido
Didn't know that was a thing and it looks quite interesting from the competition videos I've seen. Definitely saw some techniques I would've dismissed as unrealistic out of hand if I hadn't seen it being performed on someone working against its performance. Wish it was more popular and I had somewhere to train it, but unfortunately even plain old Aikido is niche where I live.
I didn't hear about Shodokan Aikido until I saw this video.
While some of it is still very questionable, those standing locks look legit.
no one teaches it so its pointless to push it
havent seen any JJJ gyms arround here and from the videos ive seen its suffers a little bit from Aikido desease
Even if you find a decent JJJ dojo to train at (BIG IF) there's no supranational JJJ organization capable of encouraging competition, so your talent pool to train and get better with will be just the guys at your dojo.
I'm not against trying to reconstruct old style ju-jutsu, but to even have a worthwhile input on that you should probably be a master at one of the modern derivative styles first. The idea of a more complete ju-jutsu style that is capable of supplementing good takedowns, ground work, submissions and joint manipulation with decent strike is attractive, but there's just no way to actually practice that on its own right now.
The problem with JJJ is it is very broad in the number of techniques but it's over stuffed with techniques that are very very low percentage and almost everything is trained with low resistance.
With proper lineages some of the stuff is a incredible living history of stuff from hundreds of years ago. And ones without lineage are still fun on the hobbiest level, but so much time is spent on stuff that isn't effective or can't be trained with intensity and resistance and there is so much stuff to train that its extremely rare for a practitioner to be at a high level of proficiency. You could end up spending 10 years training in it and still being mediocre at basically everything and being just a little better than a average person at actual fighting.
Some schools of hapkido have similar problems.
In Germany Ju jutsu is the most practiced martial art. It has very similarities to combat sambo IF it would trained right.
You can compete in duo.
Which is basically a partner choreography:
Or in fighting, what is point fighting mma in a gi. Relay great for kids.
And there is allkampf, which is MMA in a gi.
%3D
But most gyms train like the biggest mc dojos and all you do is partner drills with stuff like this
Very sad. It has potential
Because how you practice things matters more than technique collection. Sport allows you practice techniques in better ways than in traditional martial arts