Jordan is the most overrated athlete of all time, no other sport in history has people discrediting past era's to prop up another star. If held to the standard of other sports, he wouldn't even be top 5 all time in the NBA
Jordan is the most overrated athlete of all time, no other sport in history has people discrediting past era's to prop up another star.
ur gay
you literally posted a pic of a more overrated athlete in your OP
Babe is still the all-time OPS king, but you wouldn’t even know what that is would you
yeah when part time plumbers were pitching to him
Jordan is the GOAT, deal with it LeBeta cuck
>Plumbers
Case in point, self-white hatred and racism. Only in basketball do they cope about other era's. Every other sport goes solely by stats to determine the GOAT
jordan led the league in PTS, STLS, BBLS, and SNDS. yeah i didn't think a casual like you would know what any of that means
never faced domician pitching therfore irrelevant.
Bonds, Pedro Martinez, and Pete Rose are the GOATS
Ruth is literally the most dominant baseball player of all time and it's not even close.
Babe was hitting against pitchers who threw 150 pitches every night.
Todays guys go up against 100 mph flamethrowers for 1/2 the game and maestros from every corner of earth with 80 pitch counts and a mystery pitch to go along with a high 90s slider.
It's by no means a fair comparison
>Racism again
Why do Lebum fans always try to diminish players that are vastly better than Lebron in order to convince people that LeBron should be in the conversation of being one of the best ever.
Kareem was too smart
Bill was too plain
Bird couldn't win with a stacked team
Jordan meanwhile was the Taylor Swift of sport, he was smart enough to know he was a brand but dumb enough to want to be a brand. Drunk enough to go along with it, sober enough to be able to do it.
Kareem never talked to the media, he made more appearances in movies.
He refused to have a bidding war for his first contract due to the context of slave auctions.
Jordan never brought that up, he was just "Republicans buy shoes"
As for Ruth, many have been better
If we take stats and achievements out of the equation it's not even a contest. Jordan & Kobe are far better at basketball than Lebron.
As far as basketball skill and mastering every aspect of the game of basketball Jordan and Kobe were complete basketball players. They pretty much had no weaknesses. They had an endless arsenal of offensive moves from anywhere on the court. They had moves and counter moves for pretty much anything. They can ISO, they can post up, they were clutch, And they were both elite defenders. Their game was also beautiful to watch. They were highly creative and sometimes created moves during the game to counter something they were going up against. Like Kobe learning to shoot with his left because he injured his right hand.
Lebron on the other hand has many faults in his game. He hasn't mastered the game of basketball like the other two. He is a bad shooter. He shoots around 35% outside of 3 ft from the basket. His offensive arsenal is limited. He has no ISO game, has no post-up game, needs a screen to do anything. Isn't creative as he only does like two or three dunks over and over again. That's why he never joined the dunk contest. He is an slightly above average defender. LeBron's mastery of the game of basketball is subpar and has many holes in it.
That's why the Spurs and the Mavericks game plan in the finals versus LeBron was to let him shoot. That is highly embarrassing, and no all time great, especially in the top 10 list, would ever get treated that passively by any team especially in the finals.
You can't take stats out. Stats tell us what our own simple eye test and intuition can't. Russ Westbrook for instance may seem like a godly high motor player from appearance alone but from stats we learn that he is incredibly inefficient to the point that he actually hurts his overall team with low % scoring and high turnovers.
Kobe was a poor man's MJ. A true scorer and competitor but not quite as efficient and that held him back. On his bad shooting days he was an utter liability for the whole squad as he demanded the ball.
>not quite as efficient
The efficiency argument is nonsense. During the late 90, and 2000's , no players were shooting 50% fg besides bigs. Not Ray Allen, not Vince Carter, not Iverson, not Carmelo, etc, etc.
No it isn't. MJ literally shot better than Kobe. Higher career PPG, TRB, and Assists, by a thin margin sure but still. Kobe is quite literally a poor man's MJ down to like the height and team role.
That's why Jordan is the goat. Kobe is right below him. And Lebron is way below them two and a few others players as well.
Kobe actually shot above League average in shooting % during the dead ball era which Zoomers failed to mention or realize.
The times Kobe and Lebron went against each other, meaning they guarded each other, Not Team records, these are the numbers.
Kobe shot 54% and had 74 points when guarded by Lebron.. Lebron shot 27% and had 54 points when guarded by Kobe.
>Kobe
lmao
Kobe is better than Lebronze
Kobe isn't even top 20 all time, nor was he ever a serious MVP candidate other than 2008 which he stole from Chris Paul. He's so overrated by fanboys because he died, nobody gave a frick about him outside of LA when he was playing for the majority of his career. It was Allen Iverson who was the face of the NBA, along with Vince Carter in his prim
Typical zoomer listening to Le media pushing their narrative.
No player that is known for losing should be sniffing the top five in anyone's list.
4-6 in the finals. Has the record for most games lost in the finals in NBA history. While playing most of his career in the weak East and with super team after superteam. Also getting swept in the finals TWICE! And 2 more gentleman sweeps with two 1-4 finals loses lol.
And as far as mastering the game of basketball, LeBron has never been in the top 10 of most skilled players in the league in any year that he's been considered the best player in the league. His skill set is limited compared to many other greats. And him lacking skill has made him the player with the most turnovers in NBA history. No player with that many faults should be sniffing the top five. And stats without context are meaningless.
Also Lebron got back to back bronze medals leading teams full of NBA superstars, and didn't win gold until Kobe came and gifted him the gold.
LeBron has no bag, no ISO game, no post up, always needs a screen to do anything. All he has done is stat pad for 20 years, and probably has been juicing it up with PED's.
Lebron is overrated too, zoomers are the only one who think Kobe was any good. He was universally despised outside of Laker fans for the majority of his career. Shaq carried his ass every single year, and Kobe bricked himself out of the 2004 finals despite the fact guys like Wade and Iverson lit the Pistons up the following postseason. And that's not even getting into obviously rigged games like Game 7 of the 2000 WCF against Portland or Game 6 against the Kings. The Lakers had a absolutely stacked super team, with the best role player of all time, Derek Fisher and Rick Fox shooting lights out most nights and prime Shaq the best player in the league, not to mention the best coach in the league in Phil Jackson.
Kobe was so fricking overrated, even though he was a scrub his second season he still ended up voted into the all star game as a starter.
If it wasn't for Kobe Shaq would have 1 or 2 rings at most. The real championship was won in the West. And during this wars with the Spurs, Kings, Blazers, etc, Kobe was The one that was bailing out the Lakers with his heroics in the fourth quarters. Shaq was usually in the bench because he fouled out or bricking free throws because of the Hack-A-Shaq strat. Once they got to the finals of course Shaq dominated the weaker East teams that had no centers to contain Shaq. Without Kobe, Shaq doesn't get to the finals at all.
Shaq played with prime Penny hardaway, LeBron, a stacked Celtics team, Nash and stoudemire and Wade. And he was only able to win it without Kobe when he deferred to Wade and also had a highly stacked Miami team with several All Stars.
Kobe won, 2 back to back championships with no other top 75 player. In the toughest conference ever in NBA history and eliminated the most 50 win teams of any player in NBA history in those runs.
They both don't win the three-pete without each other. Only unknowledgeable and casual fans think that it was all shaq.
If it wasn't for the referees they aren't winning shit in 2000 and 2002 even with Kobe. Replace Kobe with any other star shooting guard in the Western Conference at that period and they still win a championship.
Kobe won nothing until he had a super team of Bynum / Artest / Gasol which is a loaded fricking front court along with Phil Jackson as his head coach.
>Replace Kobe with any other star shooting guard
Are you stupid. Shaq played with prime Penny hardaway, with LeBron, with a stack Celtics team, with Nash and stoudemire, And only one one time with prime Wade and a stack Miami team. There was no replacing Kobe as Kobe was the reason they even made it to the finals in the West.
>Kobe won nothing until he had a super team
This is How I know you are beyond dumb lol.
Calling that a super team. Gasol never won a playoff game until Kobe came along and toughened him up. Gasol isn't a top 75 player either. Artest was past this prime, and bynum was Not a star. He had potential but never reached it. Plus he was injured 90% of the time.
Fricking casuals just repeating what typicall Kobe haters always say.
Pau Gasol was really fricking good during that period and a top 5 big man, Ron artest was a all-league defender and people were routinely arguing that Bynum was better than Dwight on TV
>No player that is known for losing should be sniffing the top five in anyone's list.
seen this low IQ autist in multiple threads, and it's funny every time. genuine mental illness
So you have losers on your top five. Got it. Into the trash your list goes homosexual.
if your premise is based on hyperbole and hysterics and pretending that most people share your comical interpretation, then it's not a sound one
lel that's over a decade old
LeBron also has the record for most games lost in the finals in NBA history.
Including two sweeps and two more gentlemen sweeps.
>posts something outdated and stupid that still doesn't support his stupid premise
>upon realizing the low quality of that post, revises it to something that's updated, stupid and still deoesn't support his premise
>playing tons of finals games
>known as a loser
you don't realize that you're still digging a hole deeper and deeper
Playing in the weak East most of his career That's why he has those finals appearances. And then once he went up against the west he would get totally embarrassed lol.
>Put Lebron on the Lakers with prime shaq
They don't win or get out of the West. LeBron is shit at free throws and would be bricking free throws along with Shaq during the 4th quarters against the Spurs, Kings, blazers, etc. And those teams like the Spurs, owned LeBron. Again the game plan for LeBron was, "let him shoot", lol.
And check did play with LeBron even though Shaq was passed his prime it would still in the weak East and they accomplish nothing.
>he would get totally embarrassed lol.
this is a good point if you ignore the times that he wasn't
Put Lebron on the Lakers with prime shaq for 10 years and he's winning 8 rings. Put Kobe in today's NBA and he'd be Devin Booker
2000 - Carried by Shaq, outplayed by Reggie & cheated in the WCF
2001 - Carried by Shaq, outplayed by Iverson
2002 - Carried by Shaq, cheated in the conference finals
2003 - Shot the Lakers out of the series
2004 - Played awful and shot the Lakers out of the series
2005 - Missed the playoffs
2006 - First round exit
2007 - First round exit
2008 - Carried by a super team, lost to Boston
2009 - Beat a weak Orlando Magic team
2010 - Fixed by the officials, given over 15 free throws in the forth quarter of Game 7 compared to Boston's 5 when Kobe was shooting 20%
And yet, even if all your made up bullshit was totally true, Kobe still has a better finals record that Lebum, who again, is known More for losing than winning.
>Coping this badly
Unlike you i watched back then, he was nothing more than Tracy McGrady but on consistently loaded super teams with the media sucking his dick nonstop.
Revisonist history, back in 1999 players and coaches voted on the best player of all time and Michael Jordan almost lost to Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson. The propaganda about him being the "unanimous GOAT" is total nonsense and only started in the 2000s
Honestly should have been Kareem but he was too unlikeable
>almost
cope lmao
Yes, now if you did it would be a complete landslide aside from some delusional fanboy morons voting Kobe. The fact it was that close of a vote back then shows the level of propaganda done to discredit the 1960s / 1970s players
You rate Kobe because he's a Laker. He's the most overrated athlete of all time, and it isn't even close.
>If we take stats and achievements out of the equation
i guess i didn't really need these sides anyway
Fricking stat nerd Zoomers, All it takes is stat padding to be top five lol
Especially in this soft ass NBA era
>stats and achievements
>stat nerd zoomers
you can't read my friend
Meant for..
>make a dumb post
>someone makes fun of you for it
>attempted pivot with a screengrab or infographic
powerful routine
What exactly was funny about looking past achievements and stats and focusing purely on the mastery of basketball?
Because if we do include stats and achievements AND basketball skill then LeBron, drop's even lower.
>focusing purely on the mastery of basketball?
because then we're subject to the delusions of your personal lens and ignoring what actually happens, and pretending that's a legitimate way to understand what happened
Personal lens? So you're not smart enough to determine who is More skilled at a craft or sport than another person?
So if you take two painters one painter paints 20 paintings that are all masterpieces with the details, the shadows, the brushstrokes, the colors, etc vs another painter that paints 300 paintings that are all sub par and amateurish in quality.
Your small brain would not understand which painter is the better painter that has mastered their craft?
The guy that painted 300s paintings , has the better stats and quantity, so they must be the better painter correct.
LeBron friends are the worst I swear kek.
>Personal lens? So you're not smart enough to determine who is More skilled at a craft or sport than another person?
you've missed my point. I am smart enough, but you are not. Thus, I don't want to hear your delusional ranting
you also just invoked compiler stats in a kobe vs. lebron debate, which is a blatant strawman that only a dumb person would make/fall for
>NBA is a weak era today
>But somehow Jordan is the GOAT even though he's mogged by any contemporary legend from the 1960s, Kareem, Magic or Mikan
I saw both Jordan and Magic in their prime and they were very different players. Posters here who say Jordan had a complete set of abilities aren't wrong. He could jump, shoot, dunk, block, steal, pass, throw... everything, and I mean he could really do everything. He's the closest I've ever seen to perfection in sports. A 10/10 all around player.
He beat Magic in an NBA finals zoomie
No Kareem
>HOF Jordan with hall of famer Scottie pippen beat HOF Magic with Hall of Famer James Worthy
So in a 2 on 2 HOF series you think doesn't count because Jordan was only playing 2 hall of famers. That's why he's the goat cope gay.
I would argue Jack Nicklaus was done a graver injustice, the media does have a habit of quickly jumping on the latest hot new thing to drive views and attention and pretend like the immediate past never happened. Basketball at least was a young sport and was developing rapidly, the game of the 60's looked nothing like the game of the 90's.
nobody cares b***h
the goat
k
Never forget
MJ has a higher average VORP than LeXcuses
MJ has higher avg offensive win shares than LeXcuses
MJ has higher avg defensive win shares than LeXcuses
MJ has higher avg PER than LeXcuses
MJ has higher PPG than LeXcuses
MJ has more All Defense teams than LeXcuses
MJ has a higher regular season win percentage than LeXcuses
MJ has higher playoff win percentage than LeXcuses
MJ has a higher finals win percentage than LeXcuses.
MJ was also in the 90s. His biggest competition was Clyde Drexler
>clyde
another guy who would fricking smoke Lebron 1 on 1 lol
Jordan popularised basketball worldwide and made it a popular sport in the UK of all places. Kobe kept the flame alive for a little while but it's quit telling how the sport faded back into total obscurity when the NBA started hyping LeBron as the face of the league. For some reason only Americans/Canadians enjoy superstars with b***hmade personalities.
Kobe wasn't even the most popular player of his own decade, it was Allen Iverson by far and the revisionism surrounding Kobe will always make me angry
The sad thing is, Cleveland kind of failed LeBron's legacy. Once team hopping became a thing people checked out. It felt very superficial and commercial. Sticking with a team through thick and thin and leading them to glory is alluring.
But Cleveland waiting WAY too long to build a team around him and took him for granted. If they'd been more serious he could have started winning ships as early as 2006 and steamroll his way through the next decade without all of the other drama that came to characterize him.
jordan left the bulls twice
kareem famously switched teams
Kareem was with the Lakers long enough though
that is inaccurate on a global scale and on the scale of the countries in which the NBA is based, so I'm not sure how valuable the explanation is
>only Americans/Canadians enjoy superstars with b***hmade personalities
yeah you guys prefer it without the "made" part
Most half breed mutt zoomer NBAplayers now a days look like Foden with nappy hair.
And behave like this.
okc is very gay, but at least they're like 6'6
brits idolize actual twinks
>jordan could not win jack shit when magic and bird were playing
>took an AIDS-ridden magic johnson for michael to win
>had to use a stacked team to win against a bunch of nobodies
>went into irrelevancy again when Kobe came into the scene
why are MJ gays the biggest cuckgays?
Everytime Lebeta gets his first round exit
His wiener smokers start randomly hating on Jordan
No sports fan is more brainwashed than the average NBAfan. It's Hollywood level of indoctrination.