Here's the idea:
- Judo points system but ippon doesn't end the fight
- submissions and pins score ippon but doesn't end the fight
- ippon only for throws likely causing damage if executed on a hard surface
- Judo or BJJ gi required
- shoes allowed
- win by points when the time runs out
- anyone with any martial arts background can take part
This would be the competition standard that truly considers all 3 grappling disciplines. Wrestlers wouldn't mind if they have to wear a gi. Everyone gets equal chance of scoring points. Why does this not exist already?
Too subjective, calls for speculation
Interesting idea.
Agreed.
>ippon only for throws likely causing damage if executed on a hard surface
This right here is the problem. How could this be judged?
>submissions
>doesn't end the fight
My BJJ bias is showing, but I think that's silly. Rendering someone unconscious or crippling a limb is the end of a fight.
Just to make sure I understand you, you're proposing a ruleset that has no finishes, right? Every match would run to full time, and whoever scored the most throws, pins, and submissions would win, right? I mean, I guess that could work, I just feel like people want to see finishes. The problem with submission only matches is that they encourage stalling, conserving energy, and wasting time til the last moments. You know, maybe your concept does work, for encouraging action: score score score points, if you're only playing defense you'll fall behind, etc.
One issue that might come up is, you're incentivising dirty players to damage their opponents. If I'm dirty, and I know I've got to keep fighting this guy after he taps, I might as well crank the utter frick out of the sub I've got. If he's damaged, the next sub will be that much easier. Imagine a moron like Palhares in a match like this. Maybe you're a bloodthirsty sadist and that's your intention.
>How could this be judged?
Same way scoring in general is judged. Refs already know what an ippon is and what isn't, so the same logic would apply with street effective throws.
People would still see finishes, by that I mean tap outs. The fight would continue after that though, much like in training. However submissions are not the only possible finishes in the street, a good throw can break body parts just like joint locks and knock the guy out like a choke. Wrestlers and judokas are stripped from their most effective techniques under IBJJF rules and BJJ guys are not allowed in wrestling and judo competition. Even if they were, their most effective techniques are stripped.
Hmmm. I'm intrigued, I'd be interested to see a match under these rules just to demonstrate the concept. What would you call it? I'd call it sometime like a "continuous action" match, being the opposite of a "submission only" match.
I'd think the organizers get to choose what to call the competition, but the rule set should be a standard. Standard grappling rule set? Standards ironically have very different naming conventions. ISO-grappling sounds kinda strange but credible?
>If I'm dirty, and I know I've got to keep fighting this guy after he taps, I might as well crank the utter frick out of the sub I've got.
Well obviously you should get a DQ if you do that. With modern tech it's easy to check after your opponent complains that it was intentional.
You're walking into being Olympic karate where the guy won gold by getting knocked out
Speaking of that guy:
Anyhow. There are rather big issues with IBJJF rules, just as there's issues with IJF rules. Wrestling rules are the least realistic. We need something that unites all three and is somewhat realistic. You could make it more realistic by scoring the highest points with the most realistic techniques, such as street credible throws, pins and submissions, without favoring submissions too much. Of course a submission would end a real fight but so would a good throw. In IBJJF throws mean diddly squat because it's not a hard surface. This is just a response to all the criticism towards the rules of judo, bjj and obviously wrestling, which most people don't even consider a martial art. Yet if a good wrestler throws you on concrete, there's a good chance it breaks something in your body or knocks you out. The IBJJF rules do not simulate this fact at all.
The main thing ibjjf needs is to penalized guard pulls by giving a point to the other person
That immediately puts them at a deficit meaning they have to sweep to win
It changes the dynamic where you can't just hide in a defensive position and stall
All combat sports have this issue. In this model a fighter can bounce back with points, even if the opponent was wrongly awarded ippon. It's more about the overall score, which also favors well rounded fighters rather than one trick ponies.
>favors well rounded fighters rather than one trick ponies
I don't know about that, it might play right into the hands of someone who has one elite level technique. I'm thinking of Kimura and his notorious osoto gari.
Maybe that's a bad example since Kimura was obviously a very complete grappler, but *legend tells* that his training partners had to specifically ask him to stop just osoto gari-ing the living shit out of everyone. If he were in this competition, it would be ten straight minutes of him smashing a guy into the floor with the same technique over and over.
Someone will figure out a counter eventually. That's what martial arts are all about.
>if he were in this competition, it would be ten straight minutes of him smashing a guy into the floor with the same technique over and over.
Would watch
this
>when you just want BJJ to be judo
you already have a sport, go back
>bjj is ten minutes of high level judo throws one after another
Are you moronic?
Are you? I'm saying if you wanna watch throws, go watch Judo instead, the sport that already does what you want.
But the thread isn’t about bjj it’s about a different grappling ruleset presumably based on judo considering the OP image. Are you having a stroke? No one’s talking about changing bjj.
You want the judokas to suffer more head trauma than already? They are professional head dummies.
Why not instead, getting the top sweep/throw is 1 point (guard pull does not count) and having the control of top for 10 seconds is considered an automatic point on the ground, then reset do this for about 3x5 minute rounds.
If the tap doesn't end the fight then people will just be going straight into full force breaks
I'll get points and you'll only have 1 arm left for the next round
>ippon only for throws likely causing damage if executed on a hard surface
>MUH CONCRETE!!!!
LMAO, I grip your leg with at least one hand and lower my center of mass and the only """ippon""" you can make on me is something with very very little amplitude that will not make any damage on concrete
gl not getting you back broken in pieces by the sumi gaeshi counter
Yes, and op very clearly means that you would not be awarded an ippon in that situation.