Palm strikes or punches?
Last one turned into an insult match which is very sad and we never got a actual answer.
 It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
 |
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
Palm strikes or punches? Last one turned into an insult match which is very sad and we never got a actual answer.
tbh no reason not to slap in a fight, they have more knockout power than a punch
I still want anon to describe a situation where its better to palm strike with a glove on
Anon never actually made that claim, as your anally annihilated ass very well knows
Not him, but yes he did.
Im sure you prove it then
>projecting and seething so hard that you can't even greentext
The threads been deleted and not in the archive how the frick would I do that?
>being so assblasted about not knowing how to fight that you project your assblasting
>or even worse
>you project someone elses' assblasting
What projection and seethe are you referring to? I only i see yours
>does nothing but seethe incoherently
>no u I win bruv
K... keep me posted
>still posting and hasn't committed harakiri
>I still want anon to describe a situation where its better to palm strike with a glove on
Any time? The palm typically isn't padded in gloves, so it's used pretty often. Illegal though. Slap hooks are common in boxing, for example.
Agree with this post but I'm not sure its "better". It is an effective form of striking and you can really knock somebody's block off if you tag them on the chin. Use this in MT and no rules fights because it is like you said dirty boxing.
>The size of the boxing glove makes it unpleasant to palm strike with.
Maybe with 16 oz gloves or something
>Your wrist doesn't bend back enough to execute a proper palm strike with a big glove on
Your wrist dosent need to bend back that far to execute a hook with the flat part of glove/palm, if it all really.
I dont think there is really any evidence for that. I've certainly never encountered it but im also a boxer/MT main. My point is regular practice will strengthen those joints all the same.
>Your wrist dosent need to bend back that far to execute a hook with the flat part of glove/palm, if it all really.
That is not a palm strike, that's closer to a slap. The anon claiming a slap hook is the same thing as a palm strike doesn't understand physics
If it connects with the palm its a kind palm strike. How are you still arguing with an entire thread where everyone is calling you a moron
>take days to provide examples of palm strikes in fights
>slap is literally in the title
>don't call it a slap from the beginning when that's clearly what it is
Why are you guys so consciously insistent on being homosexuals
Only reason I could see myself doing it is using my palm to blind the opponent for a second while I take an angle. Too much risk of breaking one/more/all of your fingers if it's an actual fight, and if it's in competition too much risk of breaking fingers or eye-poking the opponent and getting some homosexual no contest.
I might also use it in the clinch or half-step to push their chin up when they're on the wall, but only to set up other attacks.
If you can aim your punches, make a tight fist, and have strong hands you probably aren’t going to break them in a fight. I don’t think palm strikes are as effective as fists, but they probably still are effective enough. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer to this question.
You can stop someone's heart with your palms and then just say he collapsed when the cops arrive.
Are you supposed to use the heel bone of your palm instead of the open cup?
Depends on angle of attack and target.
What is this image supposed to demonstrate? Everyone knows what the palm strike looks like
and seething so hard that you can't even greentext
>hurr durr cant greentext
>text is still green
lmao what are you on bro, just admit defeat and stop being a dumb homosexual who cant fight
>having a complete meltdown
Just stop already bro, you won't regain any honor here
You have dishonored famiry, commit sudoku
>everyone knows what a palm strike looks like
First thread I had to argue with a moron saying that hitting with the wrist bone was different than a palm strike, so I think it warrants pointing out
Hooks are pretty awkward with palm strikes although you could substitute for slaps to the ear. You can also reach further with punches. It really depends. If I wanted to throw a hook I would use a fist, and if no fist allowed then I would clothesline them with the forearm (more effective than you think). If I wanted to throw a straight shot and for some reason I weren't aiming for a weak spot like the nose, jaw or eye then I would palm strike to reduce the risk of hurting my hand on their forehead/top of head. If you are really so concerned about hurting your hands then pull your opponent into a clinch or just slap the frick out of them by putting your hip into the slap. One final thought is that using open hand strikes may be viewed more favorably by the law. Your hands should be up in a self defense scenario, either gesticulating or just having them in a position where they have to travel less to defend or to pre-emptively strike. In this scenario an open palm strike would not only be faster but could be argued to show less malicious intent. You did not hit your opponent as a boxer, but rather just lashed out your open hand as a forceful motion to "get back" or as a misplaced, one handed shove. You could even argue you were in such shock that you did not think to make a fist, such was your eagerness to get your assailant away from you
at king of the streets they use fists. therefor i will use them too
This given in actual pressure tested bare knuckle combat the dudes ALL punch, punching is superior and palm strikes dumb weeb shit.
I'm still waiting for him to provide an example from last thread, so you can tell him to stop being a moron
>thread is deleted, not in archive
>provide an example!
Kys yourself
Yeah you don't even know what the subject is, so frick off
>still waiting for an example for shit you yourself made up after getting assblasted so you're going to spend the entire next thread shitting and pissing yourself because anon refuses to defend the strawman position that you came up with
Unironically kys
lmao you must be israeli to try and memoryhole this
The size of the boxing glove makes it unpleasant to palm strike with. Your wrist doesn't bend back enough to execute a proper palm strike with a big glove on
As for karate palm strikes, like I said in the previous thread, lmaokarate
That's not how you execute a slap hook m8. Also maybe take more than one boxing class because glove sizes vary, not even counting muay thai
I wasn't describing a slap hook
Half this thread is just you parading what an utter moron you are. Please just stop
No. You don't know how to fight, I do
I'll keep correcting you until you give up
>everyone calling me moronic is the same person
Lol. Lmao even
If you disagree with me, I guarantee you have less experience and skill than I do. Doesn't really matter which anon you are
So what did you say then? Because I specifically remember someone posting that there are times when palm striking (with a glove on) is better than punching. Let me hear an example or you're israeli
>lmao you must be israeli to try and memoryhole this
No youre just an utter frickwit. I know what I said
>stay on topic for my thread I started with a shitpost
Kys yourself too
Hyperemotional.
>hyperemotional
You’re the one crying about your gay thread
Someone seems a bit peeved. Maybe you should take a 15 minute break.
No. Make me.
palm strikes is a great way of getting your wrist broken.
I am not even sure how you could even break your wrist doing a palm strike.
>throw palm strike
>miss and hit with your fingers instead of your palm heel
>wrist gets bent backwards and hyperextended
Literally more likely to happen than your fist shattering like glass
Litterally taught palm strikes to little old ladies and they didn't have this problem.
Also you would sprain your wrist doing that. It wouldn't break your wrist even if you were hitting full force on a concrete pole.
You are just making shit up about people somehow fricking up palm strikes enough to break their wrist.
> Litterally taught palm strikes to little old ladies and they didn't have this problem.
Probably because they didn’t actually have to use them in a fight you dumbass
>you wouldn’t injure your wrist this way you’d just injure it this other way
Ok
So no evidence and no argument.
Just insults.
Unless you can prove that palmstrikes break wrist this conversation is over.
>no evidence
What do you want a study
>no argument
My argument is that under perfect conditions in a dojo yes you’re not likely to injure your wrist doing a palm strike or a punch for that matter. Under stress against a resisting opponent you are just as if not more likely to hurt yourself doing a palm strike as you are a punch because a misaligned palm strike will hyper extend your wrist backwards.
Is that clear enough for you?
>What do you want a study
That would be great actually.
>My argument is...
Do you have any evedence?
I don't think you are basing this on anything, and instead think you are just making assumptions.
In fact I challenge you to find a single example of someone breaking their wrist using a palmstrike in a fight.
If you can find even one I will consed the point.
Yes, I am basing my opinion on observations of practical reality. If you force your wrist backwards you will injure it. Up until two posts ago you agreed with that assessment. I have no idea what you think you’re going to accomplish demanding sources like a redditor.
>bro post an example
Those are going to be extremely limited because human being are naturally inclined to strike with closed fists. From a quick google search I can tell you there’s plenty of karategays talking about how to do palm strikes without breaking your wrist, which implies that it has happened before
So not only do you not have any evedence but now you are complaining and name calling when asked to justify your position.
There is nothing more needed to be said.
Your argument is baseless and without standing and thus I dismiss it and anything else you have to say on the subject.
You were not able to demonstrate that palmstrikes break wrist. End of argument.
I’m not even going to argue anymore I’m just going to post this video from the last thread. Sorry you’re functionally moronic and need le science to prove obvious things for you like hyperextending your wrist can injure it.
135 replies and palmstrikers still get owned by the gayest martial arts channel on youtube.
>Shin conditioning doesn't work bro
Somebody tell Thailand they've been doing it wrong. This gay doesn't know anything
I literally have not talked about conditioning a single time in this thread, schizo
He mentions it in the video you absolute moron, and has another on the same subject
I don’t know or care about limb or strike conditioning I think I’m general it’s probably dumb. In any case I fail to see how any amount of palm conditioning would make them better than punches.
In this entire thread I've only seen one person say palm striking is better that punches, only that palm strikes can also be effective.
>I think I’m general it’s probably dumb
Sheer ignorance. Imagine posing some baseded out zoomer that doesn't understand fundamentals as your source and then responding instantly the moment someone criticizes it.
Ok.
Damn you actually shut him up
I literally said I don’t know anything about bone conditioning. What am I supposed to say?
Nothing, go home and lay down.
is that the guy who uses his 100 lbs, 5'4 girlfriend as his sparring partner?
>In fact I challenge you to find a single example of someone breaking their wrist using a palmstrike in a fight.
>prove X happens when someone uses Y
>even though nobody uses Y
>except in movies
>if I pile on even more baseless claims it totally changes the fundamental flaw in my bullshit argument
You want to claim that using palmstrikes in a fight will break your wrist.
Fine, prove it.
But you can't because that claim was totally and completely pulled out of your ass.
Plain and simple.
You are talking out of your ass and don't know what you are talking about.
Not even the same guy, so you're moronic
>You are talking out of your ass and don't know what you are talking about.
Let us know what experience you have fighting. Instructing octogenarians is not fighting btw
>dox yourself
No.
I don't make unsubstantiated claims.
I only make claims I can back up.
So there is no need for me to rely on the fallacy of authority to make my case.
Who said dox yourself you lame. No one said specify what gym you go to
>I only make claims I can back up.
And yet you're not willing to back up shit
My identity irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Personal information of any kind is irrelivant to anything I have said.
Stop asking for personal information, you are not getting any.
End of story.
Frick off.
you're not that important.
Stick to the topic at hand and stop with this red herring of my identity or importance or lack there of.
I don't give a shit who you are
What is your experience
If you cant stay on topic then frick off.
Why would anyone take your opinion seriously if you don't even confirm you've trained a proper combat sport?
You frick off and end yourself
Maybe because they are able to use reason and understand that appeal to authority isn't a valid argument, especially on a anonymous image board.
Telling me to kill myself isn't a valid argument ether by the way.
Fact of the matter is you can not provide a valid argument for your opinion. You can not back up anything you have said with anything that isn't a invalid fallacy.
No evidence, no reason, no nothing.
I can confidently say you are wrong and can safely disregard your comments on the subject being discuses. Not because of personal information about yourself, but due to the lack of strength of your argument alone.
>muh logical fallacies
>muh studies muh science
God just go to reddit
Being moronic isn't a prerequisite to post here.
And not being moronic doesn't mean someone is a redzit user.
No it’s a prerequisite to post there and you’ve passed that test with flying colors
Requesting evidence of someone doing something that no one does is also an invalid argument
>this entire post
Yeah I can tell you haven't trained in your life. No one talks like that unless they're a gigantic nerd.
>someone doing something that no one
tinyurl (dot) c o m (slash) 4rdezwms
tinyurl (dot) c o m (slash) 2dsavsfs
tinyurl (dot) c o m (slash) 2pj48sae
tinyurl (dot) c o m (slash) mrys47m9
Dude, shut the frick up.
>posting tiny urls to Fhite
No one’s clicking that shit. You’re either legitimately autistic or posting fake links knowing no one will look.
Not that it matters though there’s ten trillion hours of street fight footage to compare it to where people don’t break their hands punching
I have provided evedence both proving my claims and disproving yours.
You have provided no evidence at all to your claim that palmstrikes cause your wrist to be broken if used in a fight.
Nothing more needs to be said on the subject.
I mean, you can't even proved a single instance of someone breaking their wrist using a palmstrike in a fight.
Then you claimed that no one ever uses them.
Videos are of people using palmstrikes in fights effectively and not breaking their wrist.
Complain all your want, it is still far better then anything you have provided, which is mostly just baseless assertions, insults, and unreasonable stupidity.
Your done mate.
And to think, all this time you didn't know what a palm strike was. No wonder you didn't want to back anything up
>clearly didn't actually watch any of the videos and just read their title, if that
Strikes all hit with the heel of the palm and thus caused a knockout.
How about you explain exactly what you think a palm strike instead of playing the no true scotsman game.
How about calling a slap a slap? Why do you need a palm strike explained to you?
>no, I am going to continue to play the no true scotsman game
>I have no argument so I am just going to use insults
Ok.
You know what, you can even get the last word in.
I know you are the type where that kind of thing is important to you.
Ether way, it's clear we a done here and you don't have anything valid or worth listening to left to say.
Peace out.
>instead of calling a slap a slap I'm going to say hurrdurr you have no argument
lmao. Good I will have the last word, and the last word is that your mom should have aborted you and that -5 IQ you call a brain
See ya later krottygay, real fighters fight with closed fists.
Street fighting is quite well documented. Literally no one uses palm strikes as they suck. Everyone uses closed fists.
>No wonder you didn't want to back anything up
>literally provides videos backing things up
Are you serious?
>someone using a palm strike proves that overextending your wrist won’t injure it
This fricking guy
>taking the expression “no one uses” literally instead of obvious hyperbole
I diagnose you with autism. I’m sorry to inform you it’s terminal
>let me show you the power of a palm strike
>posts slaps
Son, go take a lap and F5 your brain
Is this all you made this thread for? A desperate hope that someone’s going to fulfill your “fight me irl see what happens” fantasy?
>more insults
>post a video that was dunked on last thread
>still no evidence only more assumptions and uninformed opinion
You were not able to demonstrate that palmstrikes break wrist. End of argument.
>dunked on
Do it again. Dunk on it.
If palm strikes make it more likely to break your wrist, how come Bas Rutten never broke his wrist during all of PANCRASE? Did anyone ever break their wrist during PANCRASE?
Because Bas Rutten is a professional fighter that knows when and where to use a palm strike. Random dumbasses telling other dumbasses to palm strike in a streetfight will certainly cause them self-injury
So just practice them.
This, except with punches which are better in every way
Rise and shine anons, back to work.
Wing Chun to close the gap and then palm strikes from deep inside when you have control of their center
Is it actually possible to just grab that wrist of both wrists of your opponent and just hold on and do whatever you want with them? I know it's probably very difficult and moronic, but do you think it's possible to train for a powerful grip, train reflexes and be able to snatch the wrists of someone trying to punch you?
It’s not a super dominant position if your opponent as any sense of grappling experience. Wrist grip breaks are not hard that’s why every karate demo does them. Even if they don’t there’s a good chance they could just brute force pull their hand away and continue punching you unless you’re significantly stronger than them.
>significantly stronger than them.
How can I develop a 500 lbs grip strength?
>Even if they don’t there’s a good chance they could just brute force pull their hand away and continue punching you unless you’re significantly stronger than them.
The trick is moving forward into their space while you keep your structure solid. As the attacker easy to throw follow-up attacks when you have your feet under you properly, but the whole point of this is to get in close and apply forward pressure into your center line to frick your balance up so that if you raise a leg to kick you’re gonna fall backwards or if you manage to get another punch out it’s going to be an arm-only punch thrown while you try to catch your balance stumbling on one leg or have one arm crossed and trapped over the other arm etc
Same as BJJ or whatever, where you’re feeling for and pushing them in the direction that their structure is weakest and they have to scramble to try to just keep or regain their balance let alone strike you and that split second can make all the difference
If there is a huge skill gap, yeah. Chi-na type stuff is basically used on total newbs to embarrass them. Its not something you use on someone with any amount of skill
>grab wrists
>start forcing opponent to punch himself
>ask him why he's hitting himself
It’s easier than it looks. Here’s the vid where he explains it:
The tl;dr is that he’s not catching the fist, he’s basically “pawing” downward at the forearm (an easier target to intercept) as a jab comes in. The weight of his arm when he catches the jab drags the puncher’s hand downward so they have to retract their jab at belly level instead of up high like they’re used to, which throws off their rhythm (feels like your hand got stuck under a blanket thrown on it) and gives him the time to “ride” that retraction in to close the space while he covers the other hand
The goal is to get in close (so he can keep good body structure) with his hands on the other guy’s forearms. From that position he can go by feeling to stuff or redirect the next attacks…you’ll see if they try to hook around his hand then he stuffs their bicep or shoulder (even easier targets to stuff cause it barely moves)
While he’s stuffing their arms he’s moving forward into their center line with solid structure, throwing off their balance and making it easier to redirect them
It’s easier than it looks. Try it with a friend:
>have him throw jabs (with retraction)
>try to comb down on their forearm like he shows in the vid
>your friend will find he has to lower his arm to retract it and it feels weird
>then try doing that plus stepping in and covering their other arm
>you’ll find yourself in close with your hands on their forearms and you can feel & redirect or stuff their next punch
Keep your elbows down when you get in close, not out to the sides, your structure is stronger that way. Test this by having your friend push into your extended palm (like a shoulder height high-five)…if your elbow is out, your arm will collapse. If your elbow is down the force is directed into your legs & ground
The other person’s reactions are pretty funny when you make it work
Watch this shit start a fire with some moron on here for another 50+ replies.
Kek. This guy was the only one I ever saw make Wing Chun look like it could possibly work. He was good at teaching all the mechanics behind it too. Getting his hands on the other guy’s forearms puts him in the chi sao position where you’re just feeling and redirecting force while you try to apply forward pressure to get them off balance
This vid and the drill he’s doing is to practice going from out of range to getting into super close wing chun range as safe as possible and I haven’t seen other WC people teaching that, they just do the chi sao shit starting from being in close. But it’s useless if you can’t get in their space in the first place…this guy showed a pretty reasonable looking way of bridging that gap to get in close and actually be able to use the chi sao shit
He does BJJ too which is basically ground chi sao (sticking close and feeling the other guy’s movements and redirecting or stuffing them looking for gaps in their structure or balance to exploit) and says a lot of the principles are the same
All the wing chun fail vids I’ve seen involve the WC guy not knowing how to close the range gap on a resisting opponent who isn’t doing gay WC punches so they can’t get in close properly like this cuz they never spar anyone but WC people, and/or they don’t move forward to stuff the next punches and shove their structure into the other guy’s to try to disrupt their balance or grapple
And this whole detour goes back to the OP question: palm strike is better cause you have better alignment since your palm is just the end of your forearm, no risk of wobbly wrist breaking shit, but you lose a few inches of distance not using your fist…if you could make WC work like this guy is demonstrating then your body is in closer to make up for those missing inches and your palm strike is gonna land much more solid
Also as he moves in, his other hand is trying to cover the guy’s non-jabbing forearm ASAP because usually people will do a jab then cross, and if you can get your hand onto that forearm with your elbow down, then redirecting the cross is effortless and completely by feel. Again try it out with a friend, get your hands on their forearms and you’ll find it’s easy to redirect their punches enough to miss you and/or cross their own arms up awkwardly esp if you keep moving forward into them, their balance goes to complete shit while you keep yours
When the other guy is in the classic “both fists at your temples” fighting stance it makes it really easy to get your hands on their forearms because their defense is usually to just close up their face gap but their forearms are still right there for the touch so you can fake a straight punch and then just zip forwards hands on their forearms. From there you can wrench them to the sides too if you want, it’s pretty easy to throw them off balance once you get onto their forearms
>it’s easier than it looks
I have a decade of judo under my belt. Most people even untrained are not just going to let you grab their wrists and be unable to do anything about it.
>Most people even untrained are not just going to let you grab their wrists and be unable to do anything about it.
Try out the drill I described and he shows in the vid. Have your friend jab and then you be the jabber. You’ll find that it’s much easier to “comb” onto a forearm than to grab the end of a fist, and the downward motion fricks with your rhythm because you can’t pull your hand back as fast (to throw another jab or rotate your torso for your cross). Usually combo punches have a rhythm where the extended hand needs to retract for the opposite hand to extend, this sort of hijacks that process and slows it down just enough to slip forward into their space (with the other hand reaching to cover their non-extended hand, ideally to stuff it into their body)
Remember to keep your elbows down. Once you get your hands on their forearms have them start with some jabs/crosses and you’ll find you can redirect those off their target easily just by feel (again keep your elbows down)
Then have them try to go around your hands with hooks instead. Go slow at first and you’ll find you can feel their arm slip out but it just exposes their bicep that you can stuff instead and if you can stuff their bicep they can’t complete their hook. Step forwards as you do it and it’ll frick with their balance.
Try it out next time you have a partner handy!
> Try out the drill I described and he shows in the vid
I’m gonna be real with you buddy, I didn’t watch it and I’m not going to even if it’s a good technique. I kept trying to skip through and he keeps droning on and on while in the same forearm to forearm position. I’ve done sensitivity type drills before so I don’t know what revelation you’re expecting me to have. I will invite you to go to your local judo or bjj club and try this. It probably won’t go as well as you think.
>I kept trying to skip through and he keeps droning on and on while in the same forearm to forearm position.
Kek ya he’s long winded and the explanations are a bunch of wing chun lingo. That’s why I’m just grabbing some GIFs like this showing the gap-closing drills. He covers a bunch of BJJ too and explains how there’s a lot of overlap in the mechanics
You don’t have to try anything you don’t want to fren lol
>throw half assed punches from shoulder height
Wing chun as demonstrated might work against some karategay, but that's not even how you throw punches
WC practitioners are mentally ill
This sounds like a basic boxing parry of your opponents jab with your right assuming they are orthodox to allow you to hit them with your left?
>This sounds like a basic boxing parry of your opponents jab with your right assuming they are orthodox to allow you to hit them with your left?
Ya basically, except you aren’t trying to hit them. You’re trying to get in close to them safely because as you can see in the GIF if you can get in close with good body structure, you can stuff or redirect their punches pretty easily and move forwards into their structure to frick with their balance, which makes it easier to tie their arms up or toss them around or open them up for in close strikes etc
The key is the downward motion forcing them to retract their jab at belly level. Try it out with a friend; you have to feel it to get it. It feels fricking weird cause you expect your fist to come back to guard along the usual path but it’s like you’re dragging it through molasses for a split second and your guard is left open until you can get the fist back up to where you expect it to be…and that whole thing throws off your cross followup
I’m sure if someone has it done to them a bunch of times they could get used to it and counter it. But everyone I’ve done it to (just playing around training) gives a “wtf was that??” afterward
No I know exactly what you are describing as this happens on class 1 day 1 of boxing or kickboxing in sparring. Parry the jab down with your offhand slip in and close the distance hit with left then right again.
And the other person has to evade or ideally Thai clinch to counter. It's basic boxing/kickboxing that comes up on the first day sparring I don't understand why you are so excited by it and think it's a secret technique.
Lol you’re projecting a lot there fren. I’m not presenting some super secret technique, I’m just describing what the guy is doing in the clip I posted to close the gap and get in the range where palm strikes are easier to use cause someone was asking about it. Relax, kid
The difference with boxing etc is that the parry down involves sticking to the parried forearm and not letting go of it, instead of returning to guard because the WC guy isn’t moving in to throw punches, he’s moving in to try to gain limb/body control of the attacker to open up their center leaving their chest and face wide open cause their arms get jammed out, while also pushing them backward off-balance
Thai clinch pulls them in/down and naturally closes the attacker’s center into a defensive huddle of arms and elbows that can get in the way, like shown in your pic, and leaves your own center open and it takes a lot more muscle compared to just lightly redirecting a forearm or stuffing a bicep at the early stage of a punch
If you want to say “any time you’re in close and touching someone that’s a Thai clinch”, you can do that but that would be lacking a lot of nuance. Might as well say wrestling is all just a Thai clinch
Thai clinch usually leaves the other guy’s hands free for some defense of his chest and face and both your hands are tied up so you’re left with mostly knees. Which is fine but you can see in the GIFs I posted that the WC guy is trying to keep the attacker’s center open, which is where a good palm strike can be thrown
To try to hold the clinch he needs both his hands taken up, with his center wide open, while the other guy has his hands free. The WC guy is going for the forearms so that he can stuff those wild swings before they get momentum, and he usually has a free hand directly up the chest of the attacker touching their face which would be where the palm strike happens
You don’t have to like the technique or think it works or can be applied or whatever (though I recommend trying it for fun with a friend), but it’s not really just a standard boxing parry and Thai clinch
I don’t think you understand how the Thai clinch works. Ideally you should have your hands on the inside thus controlling the opponents center and then pressuring them downwards to break their center of balance forward. If done correctly the opponent not only has to try and strike from the outside but will have difficulty generating power because his torso isn’t aligned with his hips. In the gif you posted He got fricked up because while his hands were on the inside the opponent was able to maintain his posture and thereby generate a powerful hook.
>your hands on the inside thus controlling the opponents center and then pressuring them downwards to break their center of balance forward.
Ya that’s why the WC thing in my GIFs isn’t that. It’s a completely different technique with different intent
>opponent not only has to try and strike from the outside but will have difficulty generating power because his torso isn’t aligned with his hips.
Right, and in the WC GIFs the goal is to stay in close and stuff those strikes at the bicep before they get momentum. Same idea (prevent them from throwing solid followup punches) but the WC guy sticks closer and uses feel to stuff or redirect followup attacks, which are also forced to be thrown off-balance
>while his hands were on the inside the opponent was able to maintain his posture and thereby generate a powerful hook.
Ya the WC guy is disrupting their structure in the other direction because it’s easier than pulling down fighting against their core strength to not let you bend them over (more muscle and exertion required on your end) and its easier for them to plant a foot forward to catch balance and prop their structure up
Also for knees from a Thai clinch you have to muscle their torso/head down to where your knee can hit them, and you need a full body motion to knee (lots of exertion) and the leg wind-up leaves tons of room to protect themselves
WC guy is getting in as close as possible and staying close. 99.99999% of WC guys can’t close that gap or stay in close with forward pressure cause they don’t train properly kek
But it’s like grappling, you practice entrances like a jab to fake them out so you can shoot in and use your skills. You can be the best wrestler in the world but it’s useless if you don’t train ways to actually get into grabbing range safely. All this WC guy is showing is a drill for getting used to closing that gap and staying up close in the range where WC can actually be useful instead of worthless
I was really only addressing the idea of the Thai clinch not controlling the center. That said framing yourself with your forearm is found in a lot of grappling arts and that fighter is almost certainly not a “WC” guy.
You’re over explaining simple positioning and then acting like it’s some secret king fu knowledge.
>the idea of the Thai clinch not controlling the center.
Control and expose mean different things. You can control the center while it’s guarded up, which is what the Thai clinch tends to lead to. The goal of the WC dude is to expose the center so the other guys arms are either stuck outside or crossed over each other while they’re off balance, leaving lots of gaps to hit. If you huddle up into the fetal position it’s a lot harder to hit your chest and face than if you’re laying with your limbs stretched out to the diagonals
>That said framing yourself with your forearm is found in a lot of grappling arts
Sure is. That’s why I said there’s a lot of overlap with BJJ concepts, the guy I posted teaches BJJ too
>and that fighter is almost certainly not a “WC” guy
Which one?
>You’re over explaining simple positioning and then acting like it’s some secret king fu knowledge.
No, it’s just a way of position for the specific purpose of getting into a specific position where WC is useful that’s all. It’s not my fault someone can’t tell the difference between a Thai clinch and what the WC guy is doing, I’d expect anyone looking at the clips to spot things like which direction the opponent is being moved and which hands are free at what points and what attack/defense options are available. I didn’t have to expect to explain the difference between parrying a jab and returning to guard VS partying a jab and sticking to the forearm, or pulling someone down & forward VS pushing them up & backward but here we are
Tyson would obliterate the little WC dude and advancing with your guard up means he can defend and punch as he goes, the WC dude is trying to prevent more punches from coming in and get himself in the best position for his skillset. It’s all trade-offs of risk & reward
Tyson was short but he had his ways to get in close to the range where his skills were optimal. The WC is doing a similar thing as Tyson in this gif but while Tyson keeps his guard up as a boxer leaving the other guy free to keep punching (so he has to keep slipping), the WC guy is advance forward similarly but trying to get his hands on the other guy’s forearms and then stick in close where he can use feel to redirect and stuff attacks
To the OP’s question if you want to use palm strikes instead of punches then you have to make up for that extra few inches of reach you’ll be losing. I only posted the WC guy to show a way to get in close and open up the center to expose the neck chest face etc to a good solid palm strike with your opponent off balance and their arms hindered
For most karate gays and 100% of tcm gays things learned in your first week of boxing are stuff that you only learn after paying for 15 years of dues to get your blackbelt
This. Combat sports get right to the point because the goal is to be effective and win, not to honor some bullshit tradition where a bunch of scrawny midgets duel other scrawny midgets because someone disrespected sensei
>implying this is bait
Eastern weeb detected. Western combat sports btfo traditional martial arts in all practical scenarios
>bait
>12 minute video of slow motion compliance drills
Embarrassing
Easy and useful to do, bad idea to hang out there. Give someone long enough and they'll figure out something to do, so don't give them that long.
militaries and self defence promote palm strikes, as does old timey pugilism, as does historical manuals describing combat against armored opponents in war time. breaking your fist is just too easy, unless you do some kung fu tempering bs. start now and in 20 years you won't break your hands using knifehand, making both obsolete, but you will also have deadened every nerve
They also promote punches. And I’ve never seen pugilists describe palm strikes but they do describe punching in great detail.
>but you’ll break your hand
If you’re in a self defense situation and you break your hand from beating another guys skull bloody that’s not the worst possible outcome.
Tl;dr
Palm strikes, however I'll still punch because it's a natural reflex.
It's funny because this thread gets all the larpers out and shows how many people in Fhite don't actually practice any martial arts, since the immediately obvious answer to anyone with even a smidge of knowledge will be punches and not even close.
I don't even get where the palm strike meme comes from but I assume from butthurt self-defense enthusiasts and scammers (the difference between the two being who's shitting and who's swalling it) who want to sell you some sort of "secret" to win in a street fight that, with no additional effort or knowledge, will give you the advantage you need to win.
It's truly the snake oil of self defense considering you're, at best, performing exactly the same as you would by punching and, at worst, putting yourself at a massive disadvantage.
Your bait is boring.
>anon makes a post full of obvious information
>krottygay copers call it bait
Lmao
Do palm strikes work? Yes.
Are they better than punches (outside of niche uses)? No.
>get in my guard bro!
>*dies*
Lmao how will bjj gays recover
Nearest weapon to nearest target + hard surfaces for soft targets and soft surfaces for hard targets = best to train both.
why the frick would i slap someone when i can punch them lmao
If Palm Strikes were more effective than punching then wouldn't humanity have taken to making palm strikes the basic form of attack?
Yea, which is why palm strike advocates are fricking stupid.
>Rickson Gracie
>just fricking stupid bro
>Dicksuckn Gracie
>a striker
This a logical fallacy because unarmed combat isn't that important. Peoples instinct is also to throw wild haymakers which isn't effective either. I'm not gling to read the rest of the thread but pros ans cona of both imo.
Punches
>more powerful
>more reach
>your knuckles can cut people
>clearly undebateably better to the body
>run the risk of breaking on the hard parts of head
Palm strikes
>less likely to break your hand
>less power in general but also if you frick them up they will turn into a slap and be even weaker
>less reach
>reasonable bonus chance of poking people in the eyes like Jon Jones
Thing is vs someone who tucks their chin in and knows how to fight there is a high probabilty you are going to punch their forehead. I would still punch though. Last time I was in a real fight I jammed my right pinky didn't break anything though.
Palm strikes also transition into grabs more easily.
No they dont
>punch someone in the jaw
>open hand
>grab them
Not exactly difficult
Effective strikes require follow through. If you’re able to grab them then you didn’t follow through
>doesn't know that once you reach a decent proficiency you can start breaking all the fundamental rules
>you don’t have to put power through your target to knock them out once you level up enough
Lmao okay
>he hasn't progressed to the level that he can end a strike at the exact moment after its already done maximized damage
I think most of this board are just a bunch of larpers who have never taken training seriously
>maximum damage is at the targets initial position, not past it
God I hate this fricking board
If your argument is that a punch's maximized damage is past/through the opponent, then why would a palm strike's be any different? You've now moved the goalposts
If your argument is actually that a palm strike's arc ends at a shorter distance than a punch's, and thus is easier to grab the opponent after throwing said palm strike, maybe you're just unskilled and you should stop throwing wild haymakers.
tl;dr you can't fight
>You've now moved the goalposts
No I haven’t you moron, the whole argument was that Palms are better for transitioning to a grab. I said that they aren’t because if you’re not following through your target you’re not effectively striking. If you are following through you can’t grab them. I was never talking about power differences between palms and punches. Read the thread next time, moron.
kek why don't you read the other half of my post and realize that I responded to EXACTLY what you were saying. A technically proficient punch's effective travel distance through a target is no different than a palm strike's, and if it happens to be different for you, you suck at punching specifically, and fighting in general.
Goddamn dude your brains must drip through a straw
> A technically proficient punch's effective travel distance through a target is no different than a palm strike's
I never said it wasn’t, that’s not even relevant to what I was talking about. If there’s anyone here mentally deficient it’s you since your arguing with fricking no one.
>If there’s anyone here mentally deficient it’s you since your arguing with fricking no one.
Nice self own bro. Good job, nobody
Explain to everyone here why a palm strike would be better transitioning to a grab. I can open and close my hands just as fast either way, apparently you find it difficult
>Explain to everyone here why a palm strike would be better transitioning to a grab
Lmao I don’t think it is. I never argued they were. I don’t think any strikes are good for transitioning to grappling because if you’re not following through you’re not effectively striking.
Remember when I said you’re having an argument with no one?
>I never argued they were
>I don’t think any strikes are good for transitioning to grappling because if you’re not following through you’re not effectively striking.
That just sounds like you suck at striking. You can follow through and loop your arm down and around, you can pull your hand straight back across their body, you can cross grab their shoulder or gi to pull them in for a knee or thai clinch, you can completely follow through and do an inverted bearhug
How long do it take you to open and close your hand? 2/10 of a second? Do you need to grease the ol joints?
That’s not me you tard
Then why do you
a) not point it out
or
b) continue responding
In either case, you're both wrong and low level strikers
I did. You kept not listening. You can think whatever you want about my striking but at least I don’t have a traumatic brain injury making me incapable of reading.
No I read everything. Every point I made is separate but correct. If you can't grab off a punch, you might be physically stunted
I physically stunned your mother's virgin c**t.
Can you hurry up and die so I can get some inheritance then
You're not grabbing a bunch a m8. Hooking/sticking the arm or parrying yes
And why not? You know that when you punch without gloves on, you only make a fist right before contact? At every other point in the strike, you are no longer making a fist. Unless you didn't know this, and it goes back to my main theory that all of you may have trained some time in your lives, but none of you are high level
As someone who has actually fought and trained bareknuckle that is generally a bad idea and it's much safer to keep a tight fist the whole time even if it slightly tiring and feels slower.
The slight increase in speed isn't worth it. Keep your hands clenched when fighting bareknuckle. It isn't like normal boxing. You don't have wraps on.
Then again this is a shitty troll thread so I shouldn't even bother casting pearls before swine.
you must have lost a lot of matches
> "this is a shitty troll thread"
>let me prove him right
Loooo-seeeeer.
>thinking I care about BKB opinions
The best in bareknuckle are 2nd rate boxers at best. I'd be BKB champ in all weightclasses if we had that shit here (sadly not american, and also unvaxxed so biden doesn't let me travel there)
Anon, you don't even know what the topic is, shut the frick up. I'm not talking about catching punches, which I can do anyway because I don't suck. I'm talking about grabbing your opponent after throwing the punch, because apparently people here say that's why they would rather palm strike.
>thinking I care about the opinions of people who do the thing I’m arguing about
Bruh
The best BKBs in the world are glorified street fighters. Their technique is so far below regular boxing champs that its barely worth a view.
Keeping unclenched fists has nothing to do with speed or physical discomfort, its mental clarity. A high level fighter is calm and collected even under duress, and staying relaxed is a natural sign that someone knows what they're doing. You keep your fists clenched at all times, I guarantee you are not skilled enough to speak on this topic.
Ok? You’re talking about fighting with no gloves, so I’ll take advice from the people who do that. If the best boxers in the world want to try their hand at bare knuckle boxing and then give their insights I’d listen to them. Otherwise, it’s just speculation without experience.
I assume you wouldn’t take advice from aikido right? Because they don’t have experience fighting and therefore don’t have valuable opinions.
I train to hit without gloves since that's the real life scenario.
There is a slight technique difference between the two, but the skill gap is astronomical and more than enough to overcome the adjustment needed. A top boxer (in his prime, not old paulie malignaggi) would annihilate anyone in their respective BKB division. Boxers don't switch to bareknuckle because it doesn't pay.
>I assume you wouldn’t take advice from aikido right?
Nobody should. Aikido and 50% of eastern arts are total memes and money grabs
>Aikido and 50% of eastern arts are total memes and money grabs
to be fair so are half of western arts they just don’t get as much attention
In any case though yeah I’m 100% positive that traditional boxing champions would wreck bkb champions shit but when it comes SPECIFICALLY to hitting without gloves I would defer to them since they do that more.
>to be fair so are half of western arts
Name them. Also
>systema
>western
>to be fair so are half of western arts
Western arts don't really exist. Unarmed fighting in the west developed after guns were invented and CQC turned into more of an entertainment spectacle than a traditional "hurr durr become more spiritual and disciplined to honor famiry and btw this sort of works for soldiers" trope.
>but when it comes SPECIFICALLY to hitting without gloves I would defer to them since they do that more
Then why do they suck? If they were more knowledgeable on the subject of technique than standard boxers, they would be better boxers and not have to fight in 2nd rate competitions
And like the other anon said
>systema
>not russian
And what I mean by western arts don't exist, is that western fighting styles are combat SPORTS, not martial arts. They have to be effective to win
Peak delusion. How is it that you people still exist in your bubbles in this day and age
>combat sports have to be effective to win
Anon you fricking moron, being effective and winning is even more important outside the ring when your life is on the fricking line.
>Unarmed fighting in the west developed after guns were invented
what is this cope
see
Grappling was a thing for a long time, obviously olympic wrestling being another example, but as far as striking goes, as much as I know about fighting, I don't know an ancient striking style.
>why strike with your hands when you can stab him with a sword
Name one western martial art. I can't even think of one that isn't considered a full contact sport.
>I don't know an ancient striking style
boxing
>Name one western martial art
there's an entire thread for it see
Well reading the wikipedia article, it seems it disappeared for a while and then popped up again after guns were invented, so I was only half right. I'm not that interested in roman history
No, actually my point is that combat sports are better than martial arts because you actually use it in proper competition
Yes, which is why I prefer combat sports to meme arts
Anon the
>le martial art == combat sports
Gay larp was made up by tma shitters who can’t fight and needed to cope. Combat sports ARE martial arts. You might not be training something stupid, but YOU sure as hell are.
>Combat sports ARE martial arts
They're martial arts, but useful. They're EFFECTIVE martial arts.
>You might not be training something stupid, but YOU sure as hell are.
Why? Because you don't understand what I'm saying? A combat sport is a martial art, but a martial art is not necessarily a combat sport. I will always make the distinction, because I think trad martial arts are useless and the goal of attaining spirituality is for gays. Sometimes I like to make an emphasis on it just to piss people off, in the hope that someone will try to prove me wrong and fight me
Exactly
>why punch him when you can stab him with a sword
Black person you just spent ten posts saying there weren’t western martial arts. Do you think everyone forgot? Frick you you fricking homosexual. If you’re just going to flip flop your opinions at least admit you were wrong instead of saying everyone just want understanding you you fricking moron. Even if you did actually mean this bullshit you’re posting now if everyone in the thread thought you meant something different then it’s you who has a communication problem not everyone else.
Frick you,
with love,
—anon <3
PS
>why punch him when you can stab him with a sword
That’s not why striking was out of favor it’s just that grappling was more versatile at the time. Jesus you’re fricking dumb. An absolute moron. A bumbling fricking sped.
And yet you still don't really get the point. I said
>I can't even think of one that isn't considered a full contact sport.
What else do you think this means? Trad martial arts are gay because of the emphasis on the form instead of the effectiveness. Also because most western striking sports don't avoid hits to the head, like some sort of weird girlyman pseudo-fighting. A combat sport may technically be a martial art, but they are completely different in application. I'm sick of people telling me they do martial arts and can fight/get in fights, when in reality they just do some nerd shit against other nerds
>That’s not why striking was out of favor it’s just that grappling was more versatile at the time.
Those are literally the same thing
>can't strike barehanded against a guy in armor
>so instead you use grappling
>or a sword
>Jesus you’re fricking dumb. An absolute moron. A bumbling fricking sped.
Except the only thing I've said that's inaccurate is not bothering to learn history. Nobody in here actually knows any technique
>you don’t get the point
No you’re just a gaslighting homosexual
>And what I mean by western arts don't exist, is that western fighting styles are combat SPORTS, not martial arts.
You literally said combat sports aren’t martial arts, lying homosexual.
>Those are literally the same thing
Stop huffing glue and licking windows those are not the same thing at all.
>why punch a guy when you can stab him
Still applies today unless you think the context of modern self defense somehow makes knives ineffective. Grappling being more versatile == striking being inferior to stabbing as a reason for boxing falling out of favor during the renaissance. Don’t make me call your tard wrangler.
>You literally said combat sports aren’t martial arts, lying homosexual.
They are similar but different. They are vastly different to me, and since I'm the only one whose opinion I care about, I'm right.
>Stop huffing glue and licking windows those are not the same thing at all.
Yes they are. You can't use striking against armor because its not as versatile as grappling. So you either use grappling or weapons. This is different from saying it disappeared for a while? The former is the reason why, the latter is the result.
>Still applies today unless you think the context of modern self defense somehow makes knives ineffective. Grappling being more versatile == striking being inferior to stabbing as a reason for boxing falling out of favor during the renaissance.
Boxing doesn't work against a dude in plate armor. Only metal can go through metal, so armed combat is necessary. People stopped wearing plate and chainmail armor when firearms developed. Suddenly barehanded striking is effective again. Grappling works with or without armor, as said by you/whoever I was replying to. So tell me again why this reasoning isn't applicable?
>They are similar but different. They are vastly different to me, and since I'm the only one whose opinion I care about, I'm right.
Pure cope lmao
As for the rest of your moronic post you clearly don’t understand how to express cause and effect through writing so I’m just going to call you a moron instead of reading your wall of text.
>People stopped wearing plate and chainmail armor when firearms developed
That's blatantly false.
Armor and firearms development went hand and hand. The term "bulletproof" comes from the armor smith firing a pistol at the plate armor. The dent from the ball was the proof mark. Armor got less prominent as firearms developed, but it never went away.
>So tell me again why this reasoning isn't applicable?
Because fighting didn't take place exclusively in the battlefield. Sporting events and dueling have always been popular. People also needed to defend themselves when walking around town. We have various medieval/renaissance sources talking about the use of strikes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_boxing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethwei
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dambe
>gaslighting homosexual
Everything you have written has now become null.
> it seems it disappeared for a while and then popped up again after guns were invented, so I was only half right. I'm not that interested in roman history
Striking didn’t altogether disappear, it just didn’t take precedence over grappling because wrestling was advantageous when fighting in armor as well as unarmoured, whereas striking isn’t particularly useful against someone with a suit of armor on.
The delusion is that combat sports aren't "real martial arts" and that whatever gay Chinese dancing you do are
>And why not
Do more sparring and less larping as an "expert" and you'll discover that answer for yourself
The irony of this statement is that its obvious you're at some mcdojo with extremely unskilled opponents and you've convinced yourself that your a badass. Go spar at a boxing gym or something real. The only punches you're going to be catching is with your face
yeah because you cant open your hand and grab a punch with boxing gloves on artard
>big brain over here doesn't realize the gloves can come off to test his theory
>low level strikers
How did you farm striking bro? Can you teach me for 10k gold?
>Explain to everyone here why a palm strike would be better transitioning to a grab
Your hand is already open.
In the ring/octagon: you usually can only punch, too big of a risk of eye pokes and a bit awkward to palm strike in wraps/gloves
In the street: why not both? Palm strikes are a bit safer for your hands, and can help generate some power when you're closer to your opponent (ie ground and pound, clinch).
Can we stop making these A vs. B threads ffs?
>elbows entered the chat
I don't get it
Elbows and headbutts are the best forms of defense.
>implying
My correction
*Best forms of unarmed defense
>unarmed defense
Anon your elbows are part your arm you moron. For unarmed defense you need tae kwon do
Cursed thread
Palm strikes are dumb because at some point you are going to frick up the tendons in your arm by overextending them.
This is the worst thread I've ever seen in my entire life.
Punches are better.
230 replies in, what's the consensus? Palm strikes or punches?
The consensus is that OP is a homosexual and that this thread is gay.
Okay, maybe we should make a general to get a more civilized discussion. Seeing how this has just become a verbal slug match.
>thread has been shit 3 times in a row
>lets do it again