Some say guard pulling is good cause you don't need to waste time on learning takedowns which aren't very useful at BJJ tournaments.
Others say guard pulling is actually a technical move, a part of BJJ and people should stop shitting on it.
But there is one thing that makes guard pulling an uncool move. It doesn't work in MMA, except for some specific situations on the ground. Of course, it's nothing special that different sports have different META but BJJ and MMA are like two sisters, both named Gracie.
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Guard pulling is garbage and should be illegal
I don't think it should be banned but I think it should be discouraged by giving your opponent points like for a takedown. Guard jumping should be illegal on low ranks (and it already it is) and punishable by a slam on high ranks. Basically, if wanna skip the takedown, you should be allowed to do it but it should be a rare desperation move rather than main strategy. These, starting sparring on foot and spending a bit more time on practicing takedowns would make bjj a more effectivve martial art. Just like Makhachev said "the problem with bjj is they can't get on top"
My problem with you gays is you are untrained and just regurgitate shit without awareness and understanding
>These, starting sparring on foot and spending a bit more time on practicing takedowns would make bjj a more effectivve martial art.
You mean like they already do at adcc? The tournament where a bunch of matches are wrestlefrick that drags on and on?. The problem is you're having a real hard time differentiating what some hobbyists do for fun and the actual art itself so don't speak on behalf of the art, gay
>rare desperation move rather than main strategy
Give me a good reason why. You better fricking note regurgitate shit i've already addressed.
Guard pull is a non issue
>the problem with bjj is they can't get on top
Makhachev has a point in mma but it flies and is reliant on experience that 99% of the mma fanbase can't fathom. What he says doesnt actually apply to sport bjj because bjj guys are very good on top, they are just spread thin since bjj is less specialized than judo and wrestling
pulling guard is completely illegitimate, the existence of it is a consequence of gaming the rules. It's effectively an exploitation used to skirt around stand up work
its in the same family as when judo players used to stand really close to the boarder and try to make their opponent step out of bounds for the win by DQ
it's a dishonest tactic that goes against the spirit of the competition
If bjj has one defining trait its guard play. There is no "gaming the rules". You are probably the same gays that cry about it being a worst position to be in than top, which i actually agree with (moreso nogi, absolutely in mma)
>But there is one thing that makes guard pulling an uncool move. It doesn't work in MMA, except for some specific situations on the ground.
Untrained beginners repeating the same shit. Ad nauseam. Why did you have to make a thread for this when you can add nothing of value to the coversation.
Why should it be illegal if you gays all think its a worst position. Just beat the legs and pin them its so easy
If you pull guard on me IRL I'm kicking your crotch like a football.
Doing that shit in MMA is dishonest and you know it. It's right next to boxers spitting the guard when they want to take a break instead of clinching.
Almost nobody does this in mma but many do it in bjj
Get this through this thick skull of yours. You're one of them.
>Untrained beginners repeating the same shit. Ad nauseam
The point here isn't that the beginner is wrong. It's that we are way past the premise of whether guard pulling works or not outside of the sport. Of course it doesn't work. No one said it does. We're not even talking about it. You're so unbelievably slow that you can't figure out we're talking about how sports bjj favor guard play despite some potential inconsistency because the crux of the game and the sport is the dynamic of guard play and passing. Especially ibjjf rules, which despite the amount of shit it gets and no matter how much you dislike it and how sucked up you are in nogi online influencers, does matter.
Why does bjj claim to be the most effictive martial art if they often rely on something that doesn't work?
No one worth listening to past the 90s says it. You're working on a premise that I, nor anyone that you should listened to agrees with.
What does this have to do with the sport again? Why are you asking me this dumb question again? For your dumb gotcha?
Keep coping and stop trying to save face, rollsissy.
>when judo players used to stand really close to the boarder
BJJ does this too
>pull guard
>get shitstomped
BJJ is full of gays who just hide behind rules. No wonder their community is a bunch of dudeweed liberals
People that get mad at this imaginary debate are morons. In sport BJJ, there are no real advantages to initiating takedown beyond points (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMNPGGnkOcU). It doesn't even guarantee a good position and you can get fricked with a guillotine/backtake if your double/single fails.
I sometimes like guard pulling/butt scooting in the gym because my back is flaring up with my RA and I play seated/butterfly guard but at the end of the day, this is me playing SPORT jiujitsu and concentrating on improving my guard. It doesn't mean I would completely neglect wrestling/nage-waza because I'm also interested in MMA/self-defense.
If you want your BJJ to be effective for self-defense or MMA you obviously need to be on top if you don't want to take significant damage. Nobody apart from a delusional troony is arguing otherwise. However, some people who train BJJ don't actually care about this functionality. I think this is what some of you who get mad fundamentally don't understand: some people train a martial art for SPORT only.
If you get upset that your partners pull guard in the gym when you want to wrestle, CHOOSE guys who want to wrestle. They most likely exist in your gym, and if they don't and your gym is 100% full of butt scooters, that's obviously not the gym for you.
Great reply. Unfortunately it is too nuanced for the mongoloids on this board (who don't train) to understand
>sometimes wrestling good
>sometimes guard pulling good
>BJJ is not MMA
>sometimes guard pulling good
no it isn't
>Watching WNO in Houston with the bois this past Sunday
>Tackett doesn't do a single good breakfall in his match vs barch
>Wins match
>has to pull out due to pain
Takedowns frick you up, even if in the moment the adrenaline allows you to ignore the pain and damage to your ribs and spine
Guard pulling is just boring, part of the fun in grappling is getting the takedown, its rewarding both in position and in feeling.
Go to wrestling class or do wrestling instead then gay. Bjj time is for bjj. Should there be some wrestling incorporated sure now stop whining about nonissues. If it is you train at a shit gym not my issue
If you don't start on the feet in every roll your gym is bad
If you start every roll on your feet your gym is bad. If you don't understand this you can blame your gym for being bad
moron
>gym doesn't do positional rounds ever >you actually do positional rounds but you're a lying piece of sack of shit which is it anon? Do you even train you larper?
The above also applies to your dumbass. No one is proposing you both "wrestle" from your knees, although you can wrestle someone there
>positional rounds
Are not rolling, they're drills
You reset when you're out of position
At least learn the lingo if you're gonna be a poser
We can play word games all day if you want but its pointless and you're just selectively picking your definition to win the argument. The crux of my point is that not every resistance training, as I understood you saying "every" roll, that is to be deduced as every sort of roll, starts from the feet. Don't be a disingenous gay of course don't have to start from the feet every time
no, you literally need to start rolls on the feet
if someone wants to sit immediately that's fine but the position of starting on the knees does not exist. Your gym sucks if they allow this to happen
Where are you getting this starting from the knee from? I never said this.
I am very well aware of the argument for standing, to work on wrestling obviously, and standing regardless to pull guard for the "feel" or whatever before pulling guard
"Every single time" is just too rigid to be realistic in a flexible training environment. Even if one prefers to stary on the feet mody of the time or if you prefer that every time
>positional rounds
I’d consider that an active drill, not a regular roll.
>word games
He’s right though
>Where are you getting this starting from the knee from? I never said this.
Thats where a lot of gyms start their rolls, as opposed to on the feet. It’s why a lot of bjj people don’t know how to do literally any take downs and just pull guard instead.
Is it b8?
What's the purpose of starting on your knees if there are no fights that start on knees, except koluchstyl? Being a coward scared of takedowns is not a good purpose.
Are you one of those bozos that thing bjj is "ground fighting" whatever the frick that means
BJJ is a sport. If I wanted to train MMA I would train MMA.
That's what happens when you ignore the wrestling part of bjj
buy an ad homosexual
Tactically, in a BJJ match (not a fight), it can be a good option
>inferior wrestler
>down on points and confident in sweeping ability
>confident in submissions from bottom
>good at wrestling but opponent has a strong front headlock game
>injured
>conserving energy for a long tournament or long time limit
I think wrestling is great and everyone should learn it, but if the goal is winning, sometimes it makes sense to pull guard.
Even if you wrestle a ton you might face a D1 guy. I'd rather pull than get taken down and put in side control.
This honestly
>Opponent is an infamous leg subber
Just hide your shins and get on your knees
>opponent has superior technique
Just do a hail Mary sub like a flying armbar
>Opponent has a great closed guard
Just let them get a better position they suck at
But as a combat sport guard pulling should incur noncombatitivity penalties
Guard pulling worked great until everybody learned BJJ. The same goes for the rest of BJJ. It's easier to defend against it than it is to attack with it.
Kind of a fair point. To win by a submission at the higher levels you have to be extremely good or slightly lucky.
B-Team's performance at Quintet was a great example of this- they dominated the other teams but had a hard time getting submissions on opponents that were shelling up.
B team didnt get subs because they were too scramble heavy and didnt play more of a positional game, fishing for underhooks etc. This was however punished by the ruleset in which even if you have like mount or something if you spend too long there you reset to standing, which ironically makes stalling a pretty good strategy because you arent forced to escape, you can just wait for the ref to save you.
Without striking and with submissions you just end up with 10 minutes of getting and losing collarties and low effort single legs. Stand up is literally the most boring part of submission wrestling. The thing people forget about MMA vs bjj is that MMA striking allows for breaking the equilibrium that is the neutral standing position in wrestling and easy entries into takedowns. Two very good submission wrestlers tend to be very cautious and so nothing really happens
>just get them for stalling them
And force people to make shitty moves and lose matches by getting into bad positions as a result? No, just acknowledge that wrestling isnt as important when submissions and leg locks are on the table and that without striking its hard to break the standing deadlock. MMA is MMA and BJJ is BJJ, they are different things and you can't expect a playstyle in one ruleset to work effectively in another.
Yet judo exists
judo is weighted incredibly heavily in favour of takedowns, so much so that you can win purely off of takedowns, meaning that submission attacks occur much less often. This is compounded by the fact that you cant grab legs, meaning that the two most dangerous punishments from attempting a takedown, a guillotine or a sprawl into a headlock, dont occur very often, meaning you can be more aggressive in your standup. Even if leggrabs were allowed like in wrestling it still pays to be more aggressive because even if they try for a guillotine they'd better hope that it gets you, because if you get out then you might be able to pass and win by pin or at least the ref will stand you up and give you another attempt at a takedown. So no the existence of judo is not a refutation of the conservative nature of submission wrestling without striking.
the guard pull is a result of the elimination of daki age for safety purposes
if that's on the table guard pulling does not exist
There's plenty of guards where daki age isn't effective - in fact, most types of guard. I'm not in favour of guard pulling and only do it if I know I outclass someone on the feet, but within the context of BJJ as a sport I accept it as a valid strategy.
A guard pull should be scored as a takedown for your opponent.
If your guard game is good enough, go for it. But it should set you in a disadvantage, like it is in a real fight.
Yes and No. Guard can come off a failed sacrifice throw. I don't like this touch the guy then sit on your butt and scoot around stuff. I think there should be an attempt at a takedown. Whatever.
I like guard pulling, even if it's as shameful as simply sitting your ass on the mat as soon as the match starts. Passing guard is the most fun aspect of BJJ for me and so it gives me many opportunities to
>have fun.
>get even better at having fun.
>get a practical skill for real fighting.
>but guard pulling is unrealistic in a real figh-
don't do it then.
>but it gives the guard puller an unfair advantag-
skill issue.
guard pulling is lame but the iminari roll is based
>t. Ryan Hall
guys like him are important though, you need people to do unconventional meme strategies to keep it interesting and there's no question his throw spinning high kicks and rolling was effective
people were ducking him, nobody wants to fight the guy
It took years of fighting for someone to simply walk out of his roll and punch him in the face
Sad really
because they've all been wired by propaganda to engage with bjj
is that' jjj-jiujitsssu!!! ack no! I have to get in his guard and play along!!! help!!