Specifically Eskrima
I know the drill with martial arts, usually not effective for real fights and all that, but is it fun?
I've been reading into it and it sounds interesting, but I know how martial arts can be with scammers.
Have you practiced them?
Also any tips to differentiate between good eskrima teachers and false gurus?
I'm asking because I looked into it in my city and it's full of these eclectic folks who supposedly teach you a stew of everything (you know, the ones who put bjj into everything) and seem heavily commercial and flacid.
Depends on where you are. Generally, you can safely avoid anyone who teaches it as an add on unless they're under Inosanto directly. Finding a dedicated school in the west is just about impossble unless you're in a dog brothers city, but you're looking for a school with a dedicated teacher for it.
Some of it's quite good and not many generations removed from actual combat experience. Some of it is McDojo moneygrab nonsense.
>usually not effective for real fights and all that
After about a week of training I was able to forcefully stab nine different vital areas on a BOB dummy in under 1.5 seconds. Being able to draw a gun in under 2 seconds is considered a reasonable standard of training. I'd say certain FMA systems can be very effective in certain contexts.
>but is it fun?
Usually, yes.
>Also any tips to differentiate between good eskrima teachers and false gurus?
Take up another combat sport and learn about internal human anatomy and traumatic injuries and you should be able to figure out if something actually makes sense or if it's made up nonsense or some goofy high level thing that doesn't work with your skill set. Some LARP-ish battle games like Dagorhir, Darkon, Amtgard, SCA heavy weapons, Armored Combat League, and so forth have highly developed full contact weapons sparring under various rulesets which can give you a space to pressure test certain ideas.
I'm a Flip. In my experience, going to a group full of older tough looking dudes who are usually security guards, police, ex-military, and village constables are usually legit and pretty fricking terrifying. Devoid of fancy moves and usually moving on to blades (practice blades made out of aluminum) that make the moves even more simplistic (you don't have to whack a dude so many times if you have an actual machete rather than a rattan stick) and more stabbing, with the instructor actually used the things he teaches. Tell tale signs is that they don't wear dogis. They look like a mix of hobos and dudes in sports wear. Fees are usually dirt cheap (think 2-4 dollars or sometimes they just don't take fees at all). If they still wear dogis and charge slightly higher fees, you should at least ask if they teach empty hands, either from their arnis system or "Yaw-Yan". Heaps fun I tell ya.
Sounds like a blast to be honest.
>Also any tips to differentiate between good eskrima teachers and false gurus?
Like all traditional arts, it comes down to whether the teacher is willing to fight or not. We're only a few decades removed from the days when FMA teachers would regulary dojo storm each other and throw down.
I'm not a flip but I learned some FMA from my fencing coach who came from an FMA background. This is right on the mark. If the teacher has some grandiose title and all they do for practice is some panuktabinikodinaguan drill because sparring is 2deadly4u, then they probably can't fight. The kind of FMA that works in real life looks something like
>instructor is some flip's dad/uncle/cousin
>they have a stick or training blade in one hand and a sandwich or pastry in the other
>WHACK
>did your block work?
>*bruised* no
>WHACK
>how about now is it working?
>takes bite of sandwich
>n-
>WHACK
the instructor eating a sandwich and whacking you with a stick is a drill. ... but sparring with a live blade??? that's the the real true teacher.
Sparring with your with sharpened blade is ridiculous (unless you're a Perkiti Tirsia dude or in the Marines), But sparring, partner drills with unsharpened machetes made of either aluminum or stainless steel does happens. They'll stop short of whacking your torso or your head but they will happily whack your hand and arms. Something about our blades not having handguards make it easier for someone to just slide his blade down yours to slice off your fingers to disarm you, then finish you off with a whack to the head. It's a common move in what I used to practice back in 2014. Instructor calls it "Pabasbas" meaning "blessing" as if a priest is sprinkling holy water (simple whack to the hand or if he parries sliding down the blade/stick down to his hand, jumping back to avoid any retaliation, then advancing to deliver a finishing strike to the head). I noticed this same technique from another style who exclusively use unsharpened machetes on each other. Turns out the instructors of mine and theirs have the same teacher.
>Sparring with your with sharpened blade is ridiculous (unless you're a Perkiti Tirsia dude or in the Marines)
Marines are morons, what's your point? That it stops being ridiculous?
>That it stops being ridiculous?
Yeah, I don't think you have a choice when your sgt. goes out and says "Bring out the swords!". Read more about why would they do this, turns out that's because they practice Pekiti-Tirsia kali. Figures why they're insane.
The young teachers you would expect to fight. The old teachers are too old for that crap and have tons of experience... and the OG's who most have passed on already were WW2 survivors and expereinced in contract duels. Most practitoners now are civilian Martial Artists, unless they use the art in actual real life situations the true Warrior Art is only dormant. FMA is fun, and don't let people convince you the drills are useless. When you practice shooting guns you drill on paper targets right?
>they have a stick or training blade in one hand and a sandwich or pastry in the other
>WHACK
>did your block work?
>*bruised* no
>WHACK
>how about now is it working?
>takes bite of sandwich
>n-
>WHACK
I knew a skilled Dagorhir/Darkon stick fighter who coached effectively with a cigarette in his mouth and a beer in his off hand.
Dagorhir? Looks like Larping which isn't bad, but very nerdy. Padded sticks and armored FMA becomes larping and events such as the Spar BBQ's are just larping without the mideval / Hema weapons and nerdy costumes.
Dagorhir is arguably not technically a LARP because there's no roleplaying element, just the battle game. The goal is to hit the other person with sufficient force (hit calibration can vary regionally) and either take two limbs or land a torso shot, essentially army dodgeball with sticks. Darkon takes this combat system and adds a roleplaying game on top of it and is absolutely a literal LARP; this isn't bad, however, because now the fighters are actually fighting for something other than the sake of fighting and the level of motivation to train seems to be higher. Both games are full contact with padded weapons and they allow grappling.
so they are both Nerd fighting sports and games. Their name comes from Elvish language and Dungeons and Dragons type stuff. I partially did this stuff as part of a renaissance fair hanging out with old high school buddies. it was an eye-opener using my shorter range Filipino double sword vs a very long range claymore sword, so I give those guys lots of respect for their knowledge and weaponry.
> Pokes a hole into your throat with claymore.
> Heh, nothing personnel kid.
Nice but hat's not a Claymore, nor is that pair of swords any type of Filipino-Malay weaponry. Some Filipinos did use long range type swords also.
Sticks are supposed to represent Machetes in Philippine martial arts, they can still be carried somewhat legally for work purposes.
You see people carrying Machetes mostly in the Provincial Farming areas. I've seen food vendors in the city use them to chop up fruits and vegetables.
traditionally FMA is sword fighting,,warriors and travelers used them for fighting and self protection. It wasn't till the Spanish colonized them for 200 years that the swords and warrior arts were banned from practice, Filipino warriors had to train at night and use sticks to keep their arts alive. And when it was time for diels to settle legal and honor matters, Filipinos fought deep in the farm fields.
> When its time to settle legal and honor matters, Filipinos fought deep in the farm fields.
This is bullshit. Everyone carried swords even during colonization until now. What kind of pasty ass lame city boy are you that you don't own your own machete OR carry one when out and about in your uncle's farm in the countryside?
I said the sword practice was banned, and in certain places and venues they were completely banned, which is why Filipinos had to wear sheer Barong dress shirts to show they had no concealed bladed weapons.
You know what, I take it back. But still I am doubtful that sword practice has been banned during colonization since Spaniards regularly muster up militias whenever there's rebellion, foreign invasion, or massacring the unruly local Chinks (Sangley Rebellion 1600s). I mean there's depictions of natives carrying their native blades and daggers and even refugee Catholic Japs just out and about with their katanas from the 1500s to 1800s (Boxer codex, pic rel from a 18th century map, Damian Domingo paintings, Basi Revolt paintings) If you've ever seen Paete style arnis, it looks a little like European saber fencing for some reasons (Spanish military saber practice influence?). Not to mention the "Cuadrilleros" (look that up) the village constables. I kind of disbelieve that sword practice was banned but it needs more documentation that it was ever forbidden which sadly you can't find any literature about.
>Filipinos had to wear sheer Barong dress shirts to show they had no concealed bladed weapons.
This is a myth. Most people back then just wore normal camisa de chino shirt and trousers. Look up Damian Domingo's paintings and sketches/paintings of daily life in the 1800s here from European visitors (coffee table book "Philippines in the 19th Century" I recommend). That book contains from our manner of dress, random habits, and even depictions of hunters in Laguna with guns and spears. Kind of proving that there might be no weapons prohibition at all. Besides the Barong is treated like a dress suit for the tropical climate (which is why its intricately embroidered). Be wealthy and fancy enough you can slap another layer onto that like a silk European-style jacket (Damian Domingo has paintings of town mayors dressed in that manner).
Sword practice was not 100% banned. and the Philippines was not 100% conquered by Spain.The Spanish did break the tips of many farming machetes to prevent there thrusting ability, afterwards laws were formed preventing machetes from being made with pointed tops and so the Golok was created. The Golok exists mostly in the Luzon Northern area of the Philippines where the Spanish had most occupation and control. Picture here are replica Goloks, but the Golok is an artifact that proves spain did pass laws restricting Filipinos ability to fight with swords.
>Golok was created
That....might be the case (I own two of those from my grandpa), but you see traditional regional blades from specific towns like in Tanay, Rizal or the Ilocos Region. Particularly in the Ilocos region with their blades'hilts/handguards seemingly having European influences. Not to mention regions of Luzon being recruited and encouraged to join in the military like Pampanga. There's that time where Luna brothers established a fencing academy in Manila. Pacification may have been enforced in selective areas. Not gonna lie though. I'd rather use a golok to open coconuts or chop tree branches rather than those in pic rel.
I'm sure Filipinos who worked for the Spanish were permitted to carry swords. Jose Rizal himself practiced European fencing. Had to be the lower classes like agricultural laborers. Also how did Spain maintain there control of the PI unless they had control of the peoples ability to fight back?
What about folk dances which seem to have hidden martial arts applications, dances such as Sakuting, Malagtik, Singkil, and even Tinikling?
They are basically medieval fantasy Skirmishes rather than larps.
I encourage this nerdy BS, gets the fatties out of the house.
It gives the nerds social interaction, I also am involved into FGC/ Video Game Fighting Community. I'm into Fighting games like Street Fighter 2-6, Tekken, Soul Calibur, a little Mortal Kombat. Nerdy but there's skill and lots of Martial Arts strategy. FGC has spirit of fighting without real injury or death. ...now we'regoing off on a tangent. Filipinos are nerds like any other type.
>padded weapons
lame, how the frick are you even gonna fricking bind that way?
Why would padding make you unable to bind? They're not especially low-friction.
Did silat as teenager, used the elbow block on a hook in a street fight
saw the guy the next day with a broken hand
>inb4 elbow block is not only from silat
I got it from there, worked well to save my ass. luv me some silat
>elbow block is not only from silat
Which other systems teach it?
Elbow block from what i've seen is also in in FMA, some Filipinos use the term Salat, so Silat woth an A. The block is used in Muay Thai, Muay Boran, Ler Drit, all of those are Thai, Siam, Lao, Thai, Cham, Khmer, basically the same cultural and language family. Filipinos relate to the Thai through the Cham empire. The Thai double weapons art Krabi Krabng resembles Filipino Double weapons method Sinawali.
I am Filipino, some schools are bad and some are mid, and some schools are excellent. I've had good experiences with the JKD-FMA blend of teaching. The various FMA teachers from Stockton, Ca schools are also good, but many of these guys feud with each other.
Just remember much of of FMA is filled with drills because you're practicing how to use dangerous weapons and the drills are used to develop fighting attributes and at the same time the drills are safer than the pressure tests of sparring.
The older teachers attitude is sparring is not realistic, the sparing "practice" is already fight that will end in injury or possible death.
>Just remember much of of FMA is filled with drills because you're practicing how to use dangerous weapons and the drills are used to develop fighting attributes and at the same time the drills are safer than the pressure tests of sparring.
>The older teachers attitude is sparring is not realistic, the sparing "practice" is already fight that will end in injury or possible death.
Wearing armor for sparring is a thing. Using padded sticks is also a thing. Instructors regularly smack you with it to test how good you are at using what he taught.
>SMACKS YOU IN THE FACE
>See? It hurts, right? That's because you didn't do right. Let's try again.
>SMACKS YOU IN THE ARM
>Wrong again. You need to adjust it more. This won't stop hurting until you get it right. What if I was holding a machete? What of your face? Your arm? We will keep trying until you get it.
Making students wear armor and letting them try to rip each other to shreds SHOULD be a regular thing.
The padded sparing comes at the intermediate level. And once sparring happens students should not go high octane and barrel into each other.
Spar BBQ's get togethers are becoming a thing also.
What happens if I punch that wienery one liner dropping motherfricker in the mouth so hard he bleeds?
I would suggest to into FMA with an "empty cup" Don't expect anything you have learned from one system or art to be the same as one individual teacher may show you.
Knife vs Grappling
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Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje Jr.
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Can anyone point me towards some stick techniques/drills I can practice solo? I haven't dabbled in FMA yet but I like sticks and knives.
Also, how do I pick out the *right* eskrima stick? How do I avoid a bad one?
I think I answered my own question. Looks like rattan is obviously the standard-issue material of choice, with certain hardwoods being an option for hitting tires/bags and grip conditioning (because they're heavier). From what I've read, looks like unpeeled rattan might be a little tougher than peeled/sanded rattan. Some people say burned rattan is "hardened", other people say burning is strictly for aesthetics.
Anyway, a rattan stick will run you $20+ from a martial arts supply website, OR you can do the smart thing and order from Frank's cane and rush supply and get some sticks for five bucks a pop:
https://www.franksupply.com/bamboo/rattan-poles.html#28rattan
Use Rattan for your overall training, once in a while you will run into players who use polymer plastic which simulates the feel of rattan but last a lot longer. If you want to play with them you'll need your own pair. You'll eventually want to get training knives also, they have rubber, plastic, wooden or foam. When you start light sparring you'd best get protective goggles.
Thanks, I appreciate it! Any recommendations for solo training?
I'm just casually messing around, I have no delusions of becoming the great white Filipino ninja.
look up how to do sinawali and build a PVC wing chun type dummy.
>sinawali
>Sumbrada drill
>Cabales Serada Escrima counters
Thank you anons, I've got some youtubing to do
>Any recommendations for solo training?
Hang a tire and smack that like punching bag but for practice blades or sticks. Or go fancy and build a tire dummy like what those kendo dudes use. Go to a class still. You learn faster and it's a lot more fun to do it with a partner. There's this dude who made an impromptu dummy during the lockdown times. NGL it looks fun as frick to swing at when you're at home solo practicing.
it's easier to learn the Sumbrada drill from a teacher or training partner, but it's possible to break down the drill solo. Cabales Serada Escrima counters can be done with some imagination solo.
>Also, how do I pick out the *right* eskrima stick? How do I avoid a bad one?
hhhmmm..That depends. Personally I use those 1 inch thick rattan sticks used by village constables (ones with lanyards), but that's because my teacher notice I had noddle arms way back when I started and wanted to build my arm strength up. It certainly feels more like a weapon though a bit heavier than the usual ones. I don't like the normal sticks you can find anywhere, too thin and flimsy for me. You can find ones in the size of the standard sticks but made out of hardwood, heavy and feels more like metal pipes. I know some people who stash that in their cars to be used for protection. Once you buy your choice of stick, practice with it for a while, and learn more about arnis/escrima/kali, you should go find a polymer/aluminum made practice blade to get the feel of actually swinging a sword and compare the difference between that and the stick.
wanna build up your arms real fast? Commando Pull Ups and Push Ups with some 5kg bicep curls ought to get you somewhere.
That was almost 10 years ago. Solved that problem by now. But thanks for the advice tho.
Thanks. I ordered some 1" diameter, 28" long rattan sticks from Frank's (posted above). They should be pretty similar to what you posted.
Maybe a dumb question, but are rattan sticks actually credible weapons, or are they strictly for training? From what I've been reading, it seems like some people say rattan sticks are safer for partner drills but hardwood sticks are "real" weapons, since they're harder/denser/heavier.
Hypothetically, if you whack a guy with bad intentions, is a rattan stick going to be effective or is it just going to flex, bend, and bounce off him?
tbh I feel like I'd rather just use rattan. I figure, if I'm practicing with a fast, light, whippy rattan stick, and then switch to a heavy hardwood club, wouldn't that screw up my technique?
Nice, a tire target would be great.
Rattan can give out some mean bruises, but they won't crack a skull easily.
You will notice when using heavier sticks your techniques will change with less speed, finesse, and ability to spin. in the real world, you won't be carrying one type of stick, maybe you'll end up using a baseball bat, or a crowbar. or just a pvc pipe. You can always change and adapt the art to your needs to survive a fight.
Sounds good. Training with a variety to learn to adapt to whatever you've got makes a lot of sense.
If you were going to stash a stick somewhere, like in your car or something, which material would you choose?
Personally I use the Balicki Sticks made of polypropylene and rattan, usually in a Gym bag with my MMA gloves and other sports gear. I also stash a a Baseball bat with glove. I keep a durable flash light that can be used as an impact weapon also. In addition I daily carry a pocket knife and a bigger knife in my backpack. I wish I had a concealed gun permit, but the area I live in is safe so it's not necessary. There's so much to learn in FMA, it's not just about learning techniques and flashy drills or finding some special sword crafted by an expert master blacksmith.
** i use a pair of polypropylene sticks and a pair of rattan sticks.
>If you were going to stash a stick somewhere, like in your car or something, which material would you choose?
For defense or for impromptu training at rest stops and the like? If the latter, rattan is an obvious choice and there's an argument for the long term moisture resistance of a polymer trainer. If the former the answer would depend on why exactly you're using a stick instead of a weapon from the Stone Age or later.
for the love of the Lord or whoever you believe in, do not stash Nunchucks of any material. A short broom stick is more effective than those stupid nunchucks.
t. shadiversity
And just like that Imma buy myself some nunchucks for fun.
Nunchucks are very fun, I actually learned them before I learned the standard stick. The stucks have much more control and power. Nunchuks are also illegal to posses also.
I've met traxi drivers here who stash hardwood ebony arnis sticks in their car for self-defense or beating up other taxi drivers. You can stash a nice thick rattan stick or those polypropylene sticks as the other anons recommended. Get yourself a tire thumper too. I've seen someone train kali in the tiny space of his house with hammer handles to simulate the weight of normal sticks. That might help ya if you live similarly. Not to mention you can check tire pressure or bash someone's head with it.
> Taxi driver wars.
Do you guys really?
No just ordinary mundane arguments turning into something violent. One time I've seen a taxi driver literally whip out nunchucks and started bashing the other taxi driver who bumped into his cab. Taxi drivers are weird. They have CB radios and chat and joke with each other or call for back up when something happens (like a robbery), but also engage in moronic brawls among each other.
>Nunchuks are also illegal to posses also.
Are you from Hong Kong? Why the hell would nunchucks be illegal anyway?
Nta. Like the 12/6 elbow in MMA being illegal because some ancient lawmakers saw some scary videos, the nunchucks got banned by some towns/states/province etc because ultra deadly 80s karate moronation. And unless a prosecutor wants your balls for some reason, it's probably not going to come up.
>Like the 12/6 elbow in MMA being illegal because some ancient lawmakers saw some scary videos
Weren't they something like those board breaking demonstrations? Might as well ban knife hands and are kicks too.
That's the story. And yeah, they're not even capable of following a logical path from an incorrect point. Just ughscarybadno.
NGL. I missed out on armored arnis sparring. Looks like it's fun as frick. With the popularization of polymer-made practice blades. Arnis should start holding regular sparring and practice HEMA style. Imagine Itak feders.
Do the open hand flip arts translate well to other martial arts if you have a good foundation? Always thought the trapping and parrying stuff was fun and potentially useful for setting up grapples, though I've never practiced it. I have a supposedly good place near me that teaches it and I really like the instructor there (personal friend of mine, he rented out the place for other martial arts classes and I did BJJ there for a few years, really like the guy and his family), but my schedule is already pretty packed as it is and I don't recall feel like doing this investment unless there's something to gain other than just having fun (which is still very important, of course).
Filipino empty hand drills have been modified for NFL Football with championship success. There are FMA styles that can transition from standup to ground like the Paete/ Garimut Arnis. FMA definitely mixes well with Wing Chun Energy drills. Okinawan Karate also mixes well with it as Okinawan Karate contains energy drills, while Japanese mainland standardized Karate does not.
Anyone here practices Panuntukan?
The classes I took would teach us stick, knife, and empty hand alternating thru each day. Panantukan just means boxing, but there are Masters who concentrate on just teaching Panantukan.
So in Panantukan for the streets it uses punches, elbows, forearms, thumbs to the eyes, joint locks ,knees, leg trips, and throws.
the crazy thing with Panantukan is since it's derived from knife fighting, there's stance switching from orthodox to southpaw and back, confusing if you are used to only orthodox.