if he was european and white no one would state him as a fraud or that he played against farmers etc
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if he was european and white no one would state him as a fraud or that he played against farmers etc
because he would've regularly played against europeans no?
makes sense to me.
he did thoughever
santos got tired of steamrolling other copalib teams so went on friendlies around europe instead
these weren't really 'friendlies' like we see them today, and the best in europe would relish competition against the best in south america. Pele more often than not came out on top in these fixtures.
which euro team did he play for?
no lol, not that i've ever heard, idk i don't live around brownies
you said regularly played against europeans, now you're moving the goalposts
cope and seethe
>regularly played against europeans
yeah, like a league, week in week out.
that's te point. santos or any br team trashed euros anytime. that's stated by the number of brazil's wc wins
>anytime
how often was that?
my dude you understand that euro teams were not what they are today? brazilians, argies and so on stayed here in continent
there's a reason brazil invented modern football
>you understand that euro teams were not what they are today
sure, not what i asked though
Are you moronic? If he played in Europe he would face inferior teams
it's different when you play them every weekend vs twice a year
>there's a reason brazil invented modern football
you mean the dutch?
Frick off spic
He played friendlies against 3rd division belgian shitters. It was like globetrotters
This is part of how the myth of Pele started
He might as well have played the Belgian Coast guard
just admit that you're racist bro it's ok
and?
>these weren't really 'friendlies' like we see them today
source?
They were more of a tour of Pelé shitting on European teams
so no source. got it
.
>compared to today
Kek nevermind you are clearly moronic and/or baiting
>ok bro we got it
Good
brazil had the best football in the world back in his day. playing against euros in 60 and 70 was seriously easy
when pele played he just didn't win one wc - the one he didn't play
Wait a moment, a english speaker would say "right?" for a confirmation, right?, asking "no?" is a spanish thing.
yeah that crap is filled with sudacas so what
jesus
I speak English like that
>T. Frenchie
French doesn't use "non?" as "right?" too?
>
>brazil had the best football in the world back in his day. playing against euros in 60 and 70 was seriously easy
>when pele played he just didn't win one wc - the one he didn't play
He's not consider the GOAT becaue Messi exists, and the argentinian a better player, as simple as that.
1. Messi
2. Pelé
3. Maradona
messi wouldn't be in goat conversation if he wasn't gifted a wc
Messi was in the GOAT conversation with or without a WC. We are talking about players, not trophies.
you NEED to win trophies to be considered a goat tho
we're talking about a stupid fictitious title here
not even argentines rated messi above maradona before the last wc
>the best individual player is decided by team achievements
I feel absolutely awful that white brazilians have to live in the same country as the rest of you down syndrome pardos.
frick off chicano
post your hand with timestamp and i do the same
Sorry macaco I'm as white as they come. Garrincha was better btw
>chikaner running away from posting his hand once again
comparing players from different eras is moronic
pele was more successful in his time than any other player after that
just like babe ruth in baseball and he's still considered the goat by americans
>comparing players from different eras is moronic
He says as he compares messi to pele and says pele is better. If we're playing that game, then the simple fact is the level of competition skyrocketed. What messi's been able to do against the quality of players he's gone up against is dramatically more impressive.
>He says as he compares messi to pele and says pele is better.
no i didn't say pele is better
read my post again i said pele was more successful than any other player
game tactics and training methods will always evolve
what you think about the quality of the players today people in the future won't think the same
pele was much more ahead of his time and this is the whole point
>So surely you can compare players from different eras. But you don't want to because in that comparison Pele is not top 1000
ok bro and zoomers will say that about messi in 50 years too so this whole goat conversation is moronic anyway
forgot to mention
How ahead of his time was he?
>ok bro and zoomers will say that about messi in 50 years
Well maybe in the future a player comes along who's better than messi. You do realize that that's possible right? But ofc they can't say Messi played against farmers because messi played against full time professionals.
By stating pele is the goat, you're making a comparison to him and every other player that's ever played. Whether you explicitly did so is irrelevant. And no, it's really not going to get that much better, the game has objectively matured with the bosman ruling, the offside rule change and VAR. Sports science has taken over, and we know what works now. There's really not going to be much change, since the main driver of sports changing and improving is increased competition from an influx of cash. When players are paid nearly 100 million dollars, that's as good as its going to get. Back then half the "pros" played for beer money and were drunk half the time. Compare that to an era where even third league teams now have on staff physios, coaches, sports scientists etc. I'm basing my opinion off the objective fact that every single country has a dramatically more competitive league structure now and Messi(to a lesser extent Ronnie) has been able to dominate in this era in spite of all these changes that make scoring a shitload of goals in a game against part timers that much harder. Look up old scorelines, you had guys scoring more than a goal a game regularly in very old leagues in the 30s 40s 50s. The only reason you defend pele is the same reason people insist on Ali being the best, he has the largest cultural footprint.
>the offside rule change
Which change? The current offside rule is the same since 1925
>This rule was changed in 1925, reducing the number of opposing players required to be in front from 3 to 2 players. In 1990, this rule evolved again into what we know today as the modern version. This change stated that a player is considered onside if he is level with the second to last opposing player.
moron doesn't even know the offside rule, kek. Back to your favela if you can't even get basic facts about soccer history right.
>just like babe ruth in baseball and he's still considered the goat by americans
and he only played against whites and would show up at the game after drinking all night
So if that is your comparison to Pele i'll give you that.
>comparing players from different eras is moronic
Why do you not have eyes?
If i show you two videos of two games you're saying you can't compare the two?
You can't compare the Champions League Final to a U14 game at the local park?
Are you saying that? No right. Because you have eyes that can see right?
So surely you can compare players from different eras. But you don't want to because in that comparison Pele is not top 1000.
Pele is better than any Danish footballer
Bendtner was better than pele
Disrespecting Pelé is disrespecting their whole history up to mid 70s
He btfo yuros several times on national and club level and that was the best they got
Besides the farmers, the only issue I have with Pele being in the goat debate is that he wasn't even the best player in his team sometimes. Garrincha, Didi, Jairzinho, etc.
Plus him not even playing much in 1 or 2 of the world cup wins he gets credit for.
Also him just making up goal numbers out of his ass when players were getting close to breaking his records.
most normies consider him the goat
only zoomers hate him
I like how people say he only played against farmers when the Brazillian and Argentinian league were the best ones in the world.
Easy to stat pad when most of your career games were against farmers in the São Paulo regional championship.
those farmers trashed on european teams
If he was euro and white there wouldnt be such massive shilling of him being the goat
Who is the goat blonde player.
tony kroos obv
Alfredo Di Stéfano
If he was white and European he wouldn’t been as good in the first place
>tfw he was born too late to play against La Maquina/La Maquinita but too early to play against el Diego
Hey if someone won 5 olympic gold medals in 100m but never ran sub 12 sec would that runner be the goat?
That's basically the argument with Pele
If you actually watch him play you would see that he's not even top 1000 player in history
He wouldn't make a second division team in most countries
But all morons know is stats and trophies
Then everyone before XXI Century it's a shitter. Comparing Pele with a current player makes no sense, it's like you think you're smarter than Aristotle because you know that the earth revolves around the sun.
>Comparing Pele with a current player makes no sense
It actually does that's the crazy thing.
Just like Usain Bolt is the fastest OF ALL TIME
And the day someone beats his time then that person will be the fastest OF ALL TIME
>Then everyone before XXI Century it's a shitter
Yes. That's the reality of it. They are shit compared to now
>comparing track and field (a sport that barely has any strategy or game plan involved) to football
are you the same danish moron who keeps sucking otani wiener and spamming korean skinnies in /mlb/ all the time?
>But all morons know is stats and trophies
yea bro because those are the only objective data we have to compare players from different eras which per se is already fricking stupid thing to do
and same thing will happen again with messi in the future when moronic zoomers start saying he played against teams that aren't as good as the current ones
this is pretty sad when you think about it
Well there is something called film footage
Because you see they did have cameras in the 60s and 70s believe it or not
Zoomers can compare Messi to who ever they in the future will believe is the goat.
If that person plays better then you can argue that that player is better.
I can certainly say that there are many many players that are far better than Pele but ofc it's an opinion.
There needs to be an "era adjusted" perspective involved before you can diminish the accomplishments of the older generations. If you go and watch UCL games from 20-25 years ago with all the best stars of that era the playstyle was completely different. The best midfielders didn't press like a track athlete robot, positioning was the apex of a good midfielder back then. Go watch matches from 20-25 years ago and they played completely differently. That's why the stats-only arguments are bullshit.
Look at other sports, like hockey. Gretzky and Lemieux clowned on everyone else to the point where it's plumberpuck compared to today. But those guys were so ahead of their era that modern tactics employed now mimic their playstyle when no one else was doing that. It doesn't they are trash compared to todays stars, they just ate hotdogs during intermissions and smoked cigarettes in the locker room after games.
>There needs to be an "era adjusted" perspective involved
So i should inflate someone's ability because they played in the past?
I should pretend they are better than they are?
Or should i pretend that current players are worse than they are?
Which is it?
Maybe Morphy could adjusted beat Carlsen
>this
I watched some of his World Cup games from 1958.
There’s a full match uploaded on israeliteTube, and he literally looks like a League 2 player.
The athleticism / formations / tactics / technique are quite frankly pathetic.
Comparing him to Ronaldo and Messi is laughable
I believe most people who say Pele is the goat has never even seen him play
There's no way anybody can watch him and themselves conclude he's the goat from his actually playing ability
>He's black so that means he's bad
sit down and watch a game of his
it's on youtube
you can watch 5 minutes of it right now and see they are shit
>That's basically the argument with Pele
It would be if Euros were always on top
It would be if Pelé hadn't played against Euros
>If you actually watch him play you would see that he's not even top 1000 player in history
Because it's clear for anyone who actually plays the sport that he could play in any era. If Pelé was born today he would have a more similar playstyle to zoomers but would still be great, it's that simple. What made him special wasn't le ginga, it were his physical attributes, his uncanny ability to learn and how creative he was compared to his competition.
t. never watched pele
There's nothing he does that is special compared to today.
This is like LeBron. Lacks skill, and stat pads for 20 years. And Zoomers think this puts him in goat conversations lol.
You wouldn't know who he is. We never see threads about Matthews or Gerd Muller
Yep, it's racism
Reminder that Pele wasn't even voted best player when players were polled, it was the other argentino midget who won. Even his contemporaries view him as a statpadding fraud.
.
if he were european and white europeans would never question his GOAT status
From the statistical section of the 1977 book "My Life And The Beautiful Game"
>AUSTRIA
07-02-1959 0-3 – Austria Wien
1 defeat
0-3 goals
0 goals scored by Pelé
>BELGIUM
05-26-1959 1-0 - Royal Standard
05-27-1959 4-2 2 RSC Anderlecht
05-30-1959 1-2 – Gentoise
05-19-1960 4-3 1 Royal Standard
05-28-1960 6-0 2 RSC Anderlecht
05-31-1960 10-1 4 Royal Beerschot
06-11-1960 5-2 2 Gentoise
06-12-1960 3-1 – Selection Antwerp
06-04-1961 4-4 – Selection Antwerp
03-01-1972 0-0 – RSC Anderlecht
03-06-1973 1-0 – Royal Standard
8 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat
39-15 goals
11 goals scored by Pelé
73 % won
28 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 4-1, 1 goal by Pelé
>CSSR
02-15-1959 3-4 – UDA Duklas
01-16-1965 6-4 3 Selection CSSR
01-13-1968 4-1 – Selection CSSR
2 wins, 1 defeat
13-9 goals
3 goals scored by Pelé
67 % won
23 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 4-3, 1 goal by Pelé
>ENGLAND
10-22-1961 4-2 1 Sheffield Wednesday
09-22-1969 3-2 2 Stoke City
09-21-1970 2-2 2 West Ham United
02-02-1971 1-0 – FC Chelsea
02-21-1972 1-2 – Aston Villa
02-23-1972 2-0 - Sheffield Wednesday
06-04-1972 4-2 3 Newcastle United
06-13-1972 2-2 1 Coventry City
5 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat
19-12 goals
9 goals scored by Pelé
63 % won
47 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 2-1, 1 goal by Pelé
>FRANCE
06-07-1960 5-3 1 Stade Reims
06-09-1960 4-1 1 Racing Paris
06-17-1960 3-1 1 Stade Reims
06-23-1960 3-0 2 FC Toulouse
06-07-1961 6-1 1 Racing Paris
06-09-1961 6-2 2 Olympique Lyonnais
06-13-1961 5-4 1 Racing Paris
10-17-1962 5-2 2 Racing Paris
03-31-1971 0-0 – Selection Marseille / St. Etienne
8 wins, 1 draw
37-14 goals
11 goals scored by Pelé
89 % won
30 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 4-2, 1 goal by Pelé
>GREECE
06-28-1961 3-0 1 AEK Athens
06-30-1961 3-2 2 Panathinaikos Athens
07-04-1961 1-2 – Olimpiakos Piraeus
08-24-1966 1-0 – AEK Athens
3 wins, 1 defeat
8-4 goals
3 goals scored by Pelé
75 % won
38 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 2-1, 1 goal by Pelé
>HUNGARY
02-10-1967 2-2 1 Vasas Budapest
01-23-1968 4-0 1 Vasas Budapest
1 wins, 1 draw
6-2 goals
2 goals scored by Pelé
50 % won
33 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 3-1, 1 goal by Pelé
>IRELAND
02-26-1972 3-2 – Bohemians Drumcondra
1 win
3-2 goals
0 goals scored by Pelé
>ITALY
06-05-1959 2-3 2 Inter Milano
06-26-1959 7-1 4 Inter Milano
06-30-1959 4-2 - Genoa
06-01-1960 3-2 1 AS Roma
06-03-1960 0-3 – Fiorentina
06-18-1960 2-0 1 Juventus Torino
06-21-1961 5-0 2 AS Roma
06-24-1961 4-1 1 Inter Milano
06-15-1963 4-3 2 AS Roma
06-19-1963 0-2 – Inter Milano
06-22-1963 0-4 – AC Milan
06-26-1963 3-5 1 Juventus Torino
10-16-1963 2-4 2 AC Milan
11-14-1963 4-2 – AC Milan
09-05-1966 4-1 1 Inter Milano
06-17-1967 2-1 1 Mantua
06-20-1967 1-0 – Venice
06-24-1967 5-1 3 US Lecce
06-27-1967 1-1 – Fiorentina
06-29-1967 3-1 1 AS Roma
08-26-1967 0-1 – Inter Milano
06-09-1968 2-1 – Cagliari
06-12-1968 2-0 1 Alexandria
06-21-1968 4-2 1 SSC Napoli
06-26-1968 6-2 2 SSC Napoli
06-28-1968 5-2 2 SSC Napoli
06-24-1969 1-0 – Inter Milano
09-24-1969 7-1 2 Combination Geneva / Genoa
06-23-1971 2-1 1 Bologna
06-27-1971 1-1 - Bologna
06-30-1971 1-0 1 Bologna
03-03-1972 2-0 – AS Roma
03-05-1972 3-2 2 SSC Napoli
04-29-1972 1-0 – SSC Napoli
05-01-1972 3-2 2 Cagliari
06-25-1972 7-1 2 Catanzaro
05-25-1973 3-0 1 Lazio Roma
05-28-1973 4-2 2 Lazio Roma
29 wins, 2 draws, 7 defeats
110-55 goals
41 goals scored by Pelé
76 % won
37 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 3-1, 1 goal by Pelé
>NETHERLANDS
06-03-1959 3-0 1 Feijenoord Rotterdam
06-15-1959 5-0 3 Selection Enschede
2 wins
8-0 goals
4 goals scored by Pelé
100 % won
50 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 4-0, 2 goals by Pelé
>PORTUGAL
06-19-1957 6-1 3 Belenses
07-23-1957 3-2 1 Benfica Lisboa
06-19-1959 2-2 1 Sporting Lisboa
06-15-1961 6-3 2 Benfica Lisboa
09-19-1962 3-2 2 Benfica Lisboa
10-11-1962 5-2 3 Benfica Lisboa
08-21-1966 4-0 1 Benfica Lisboa
08-18-1968 4-2 – Benfica Lisboa
09-01-1968 3-3 – Benfica Lisboa
7 wins, 2 draws
36-17 goals
13 goals scored by Pelé
78 % won
36 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 4-2, 1 goal by Pelé
>SPAIN
06-17-1959 3-5 1 Real Madrid
06-24-1959 4-4 1 FC Valencia
06-28-1959 5-1 2 FC Barcelona
07-05-1959 2-2 1 Betis Sevilla
06-19-1960 2-2 – Espanol Barcelona
06-25-1960 1-0 – FC Valencia
07-02-1960 3-4 1 FC Barcelona
06-12-1963 0-2 – FC Barcelona
08-28-1967 1-4 – Deportivo Espanol Malaga
08-29-1967 2-1 – Malaga
09-17-1969 3-1 – Atletico Madrid
08-31-1974 0-2 – Espanol Barcelona
09-01-1974 1-4 1 FC Elche
09-03-1974 3-2 2 Real Zaragoza
5 wins, 3 draws, 6 defeats
30-34 goals
9 goals scored by Pelé
36 % won
30 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 2-2, 1 goal by Pelé
>SWEDEN
01-12-1957 1-0 – AIK Stockholm
1 win
1-0 goals
0 goals scored by Pelé
>SWITZERLAND
06-09-1959 4-1 1 Servette Geneva
06-01-1961 8-2 3 FC Basel
06-15-1968 4-5 1 FC Zürich
2 wins, 1 defeat
16-8 goals
5 goals scored by Pelé
66 % won
31 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 5-3, 2 goals by Pelé
ok bro we got it
>WEST GERMANY
06-06-1959 6-4 1 Fortuna Düsseldorf
06-07-1959 3-3 – 1. FC Nuremberg
06-11-1959 6-0 1 Selection Hamburg
06-13-1959 7-1 3 Selection Lower-Saxony
05-27-1960 9-1 3 TSV 1860 Munich
06-01-1960 4-2 2 Eintracht
06-15-1960 4-2 1 Selection Berlin
06-03-1961 6-3 2 VfL Wolfsburg
06-26-1961 8-6 3 Karlsruher SC
10-20-1961 3-3 2 FC Hamburg
05-29-1963 3-2 1 Selection Lower-Saxony
06-02-1963 2-1 1 FC Schalke 04
06-05-1963 5-2 4 Eintracht
06-08-1963 3-1 1 VfB Stuttgart
06-13-1967 5-4 2 TSV 1860 Munich
06-17-1967 3-0 1 Selection Saarland
07-30-1971 3-1 – Hannover 96
02-27-1973 0-3 – Combination Bavaria
06-10-1973 5-0 1 Arminia Bielefeld
16 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat
85-39 goals
29 goals scored by Pelé
84 % won
34 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 4-2, 2 goals by Pelé
>YUGOSLAVIA
06-22-1957 1-1 1 Dinamo Zagreb
09-10-1969 3-3 1 Red Star Belgrade
09-12-1969 1-1 – Dinamo Zagreb
09-15-1969 4-4 1 Danick Kragulevac
09-19-1969 1-1 1 Zeljesnicar
5 draws
10-10 goals
4 goals scored by Pelé
0 % won
40 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 2-2, 1 goal by Pelé
Why do morons think just because they European leagues are stronger now, It would be the case in Pele's era? Brazil won 3 out of 4 wcs with everybody in the squad playing for Brazilian teams.
Current era players are better but what if previous era players had access to the nutrition/conditioning and coaching/training systems that today's players have had since birth? It's an unfair comparison since the baseline has changed, their talent wasn't maximized as it would be now - direct film comparison is useless
What if your dad had access to gender affirming care? Maybe he wouldn't have had you homosexual.
>direct film comparison is useless
Because you've never done it.
it's stats and trophies then?
Why are you so mad? I don't think Pele would be the current GOAT or even top 50 if he were born 25 years ago, but you really don't think he would be a much better player than he was in his time?
I can only judge what he actually did. Not what he theoretically did.
The level he played at was shit and i really don't think his ability warrents all this what if this or that.
Sort of non argument as football has changed, and the time he faced off against Real Madrid (enrique mateos, prime puskas, fricking di stefano) Santos lost. I think he's good and definitely an icon of the game, but to claim BR football was better football than Euro, especially Real Madrid? No.
Also, I think he's overrated in the sense that he had good PR vs Garrincha and Vava who scored more than Pele during the 62 wc. Do non-BR normalgays know Vava? No.
I love this thread anon, and I love how we all agree that Messi is the GOAT.
1. Messi
2. Pelé
3. Maradona